Hi Matthew,

I do have inquires in with the folks you mention, looking for an interview. But I suspect they think of me as being a somewhat hostile reporter, so I am not holding my breath for them to pick up the phone.

Simon Barrett

Thank you, Representative Widener.
Thank you, Representatives Koziura, Batchelder, Budish, Stewart, D., Boyd, DeBose, Driehaus, Dyer, Foley, Garrison, Gerberry, Hagan, R., Letson, Luckie, Lundy, Newcomb, Peterson, Skindell, Stebelton, Sykes, Wagner, Widowfield, and Yates.
Thank you, Senators Jacobson, Cafaro, Roberts, Miller, D., Fedor, Miller, R.

The people of Ohio spoke and you responded.

My kneejerk reaction was to respond directly to Mathew Mayer’s childish and rather threatening article. However, I will choose to take the high road and thank the government of Ohio for a job well done. The day that this bill is presented to Governor Strickland and signed into law should be declared an official Ohio holiday. We will finally be rid of these scum sucking leaches. And not one bounced check fee, garnished paycheck, or bankruptcy too soon.

To Jeff:

Okay, so you got 2500 folks to speak out against payday lenders, so the rally turnout is a wash.

The hours of testimony about those hurt by payday lenders was smaller than the testimony in favor of it. But you forget one thing: the people who spoke out against payday lending have 1) A financial interest in seeing it banned.

Visit this link for more information on that:

http://www.consumersrightsleague.org/UploadedFiles/PredatoryCharity.pdf

Those who spoke of the dangers are also people who used the product irresponsibly. That is mostly their fault. The lenders must shoulder some blame because they are able to track how many loans a person has out at one time. But real reform, such as the inclusion of a database, would solve that problem. Banning it, as one supporter declared, is the same as treating dandruff by decapitation.

The study about NC citizens being “better off” is a biased study funded by the CRL, the same group mentioned above as having a financial interest in seeing payday loans fail. In point of fact, a NON-biased study by the NY Federal Reserve showed exactly the opposite. Here’s the link:

http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr309.pdf

The ‘Unity of Faith Based Leaders” who oppose payday loans have no more moral credibility than those who support payday loans. So that is a fallacious argument. They also have no economic credibility whatsoever, certainly less than Dr. Thomas Lehmann, whose economic analysis can be found in the first link in my article.

For every person harmed by payday loans, I can march out 13 people who have been helped. The data is plain. 93% of borrowers pay back on time. A visit to Advance America’s Annual Report shows this statistic. A visit to ANY mom-and-pop store and a discussion with their owners will also yield the same result.

Who are YOU to say how many emergencies a person has in any one year? Who are YOU to say that 11 loans are too many or too little?

But you, Jeff, are like all other opponents to payday loans. You have never needed one, so you cannot speak to its usefulness. You have never stepped foot inside a store, so you cannot judge any lender’s moral character. You have never needed emergency cash.

So now the rebuttal is in your court. Unlike yourself, who has laid out generalities with regards to your opposition, I have posted clear cut facts.

Some more questions for you, the same ones that opponents never have an answer to:

If you ban payday loans, where will you send people who need short term credit? Name any other alternative that is LESS expensive that does not already exist.

Do you believe a person should be allowed to make their own choices?

If not, do you believe we should also ban liquor stores, fast food outlets, and prevent people who have had a car accident from being sold a car?

I would like to know the source of Jeff’s claim: “Even the industry admits that the average borrower takes about 11 loans a year.”

The Community Financial Services Association of America’s webpage “Myths vs. Reality of Payday Loans” – at http://www.cfsa.net/myth_vs_reality.html – says:

“Researchers and state regulators consistently report that 70-80% of customers use payday advances between once a year and about once a month. People who bounce checks and use overdraft protection often do so at a higher frequency. The fact is that a payday advance is more economical than other options.”

and

“While customers may not have the ability to repay when taking out the advance, the allegation that lenders do not consider a customer’s ability to pay is completely false. All reputable payday lenders have underwriting criteria, in addition to the requirements of a steady income and checking account. More than 90 percent of payday loans are repaid when due, a fact confirmed by numerous state regulatory reports. It simply would not make good business sense to loan money to people who can’t pay you back.”

There’s a lot of data at the CFSA website at http://www.cfsa.net/get_the_facts.html

If you click on “Customer Demand, Demographics and Satisfaction” you will see the “North Carolina Payday Advance Customer Study” from September 2002, which states:

“400 North Carolina residents participated in the survey. All of the respondents had recently obtained a payday advance from a sampling of CFSA member businesses”

and

“87% said that payday advance companies provide a useful service. Only 10% said these companies do not provide a useful service.”

and when asked, “Should the government make it harder to get payday advances by limiting how many payday advances you can get in a year?” the conclusion was, “Payday advance customers do not want government regulations aimed at limiting the number of annual payday advances. 74% of respondents said that the government should not limit the number of payday advances a person could get in a year. In the Georgetown Study, 69% said that the number of annual payday advances should not be limited.”

First, I would hardly call the rally turnout a “wash,” seeing as the payday lenders had to bus in people from the entire state, the vast majority employees who were paid to be there. Columbus had about 2,500 local, unpaid people gather. Dayton had about 800. Springfield had about 500. Those are just gatherings that I’m aware of.

Second, if we wanted to match testimony hour-for-hour, we could still be having testimony today. It’s not very hard to find charitable organizations, religious institutions, and payday lending victims to speak out against the payday lending process.

Third, none of the statewide leaders who originally gathered to formulate a response to payday lending has a “financial stake” in this process. I doubt that the Ohio Conference of Bishops has anything to gain financially by ending payday lending.

Fourth, I don’t dispute that the vast majority of payday loans are paid off on time. A post-dated check is a very powerful instrument. However, again, the industry, in their own testimony in front of the FIRES Committee admitted that the typical user takes out 11 loans a year. This hardly seems like a “one-time, emergency use” product to me. The vast majority of these loans are being used to recover from the financial situation that the first loan put them in. Even the CEO of Cash America is on record saying that, in order to be profitable, the industry has to turn a borrower into a long-term, repeat user. How is this the “one time, emergency-use” product that the industry claims it to be?

I do agree that something should be done about bounced-check fees. However, since that is regulated on a federal level, that will take a much larger effort than what has been put together up to this point. Just because it’s not possible to eliminate all sorts of predatory and usurious practices right now doesn’t mean that the ones that can be fixed shouldn’t be.

Now, I did not question Matt’s reasons for his blog or his post. I find it somewhat disturbing that Matt decided to generalize who I am or why I am against payday lending. It is not just “elitists” or “liberals” standing up against payday lending. It is, for all intents and purposes, the entire faith community. The faith community is not united in issues of prayer in school, gay rights, abortion, or many, many other issues. The faith community is united against this practice. I am not here to say that Ohio should be run as a religious state. I am going to say that, when the faith community unites around an issue as strongly as they have the payday lending issue, then there is good reason to pay attention.

Finally, I don’t believe we should ban liquor stores (I enjoy a good drink every now and then) fast food restaurants (I eat on the go) or cars to people who have been in accidents (as I have been). That doesn’t mean that government shouldn’t regulate certain industries. I believe that prostitution should not be legal. I believe that drugs should not be legalized. And I believe that it’s the government role to provide regulations to make sure that businesses are not taking advantage of citizens. Government regulates the prices that utilities can charge, they regulate what information insurance companies are able to use to underwrite their policies, and they strictly regulate what interest rates lenders can charge. It’s time to put the payday lending industry on the same footing as all other lenders in the state instead of allowing them to charge over 15 times the rate of any other lender in Ohio.

I just HAVE to respond to this one, Jeff…the government DOES regulate the payday loan industry! All the “unfair” practices a payday lender uses are strictly set forth by laws and regulations.

I sure can look in the mirror and sleep with a clear conscience and here’s why:

First, Advance America’s practices, or those of SOME other lenders, may not be as stellar and they can or should be. That’s why the restrictions I have suggested will remedy any possible abuses by the lender. So why ban the product when a middle road that solves all the problems is available?

Second, while Advance America’s lending practices may have contributed to a borrower’s ongoing problem, you have not admitted that the BORROWER has SOME responsibility here also. A person should not take out a loan unless they are 100% certain it can be paid back. THEY must use the product RESPONSIBLY.

You say, “I left because my conscience could no longer handle what the business really was. I was working again within a month of leaving. The job that I do now makes a real positive different. I do not hurt anyone. Quite to the contrary, my time is spent fighting for people’s rights.”

No. you left because you could no longer handle what Advance America’s business really was. You cannot extend that to be a general statement, because I doubt you know how some mom-and-pop stores operate. Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTucrlciIk4

If you tell me what you do, I guarantee that I can demonstrate that somehow or someway what you do directly or indirectly hurts someone, somewhere.

You say, “Do not try to make this about the people losing jobs.”

Indigo, the entire issue is not about losing jobs. But banning the industry will cause a loss of 6000 jobs. What is your response to those people who will be put out of work?

You say, “This is solely based on an industry that cares nothing about anything or anyone other than their own bottom line. ”

Once again, this is fallacious logic. In this case, it is called the Hasty Generalization. This fallacy is committed when a person draws a conclusion about a population based on a sample that is not large enough. Your experience at Advance America certainly shows the downside of the business.

But why ban it? Why not impose the restrictions I have posted about?

You say, “The real question is, does this business truly help or hurt people? ”

Once again, I point you to Dr. Lehmann’s analysis in the link provided in my article. Here’s another unbiased study as well:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=921844

Finally, chew on this: When a child touches something hot for the first time, the child pulls their hand away. Lesson learned: don’t touch hot things. If this lesson went unlearned and the child repeatedly touched something hot, then we would rightly conclude that the child is mentally damaged in some way.

If payday loans harmed far more people than have been helped, then why do they continually return to them?

What is your objection to placing appropriate protections as I have outlined onto the product?

Jeff,

You say, “I don’t understand why any industry should be exempt from typical regulations to that extent”

You need a lesson in the economics of the credit industry.

First, your statement, “current regulations allow the industry to charge over 15 times what any other lending institution is able to charge” is FALSE.

In Ohio, as in most states, there are rate caps on person-to-person loans. Banks are not capped on loans by statute. Commercial loans are generally not capped in most states, although some minimums on the loan size exist. Ohio has a $100,000 limit. Credit card companies are located in states without usury ceilings and take advantage of banking laws allowing them to import that open-ended ceiling into any state.

All of these institutions enjoy large economies of scale. But if you notice, they are not in the payday loan business, despite the fees they could charge. Gee, you’d think they’d be doing those loans all day given the great fees. Why not? Because small loans require a lot of overhead and time.

The reason PDLs get to charge the fees they do is because the overhead and default rate make it impossible to do business otherwise. Please educate yourself by having a look at the profit and loss statement of any payday lender. Here’s one:

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=5921283-16038-19907&type=sect&dcn=0001047469-08-006297

Now cut that revenue line by 90%., which is what Ohio is proposing and you tell me if they can stay in business.

So get off the tired argument about the “high fees” and get on to solutions. Here’s some fair restrictions. You tell me why you have a problem with them:

Limited to one loan at a time
24 hour cooling off period before getting a new loan
Limited to one extended repayment plan per year
After 5 loans, mandatory financial literacy course before another loan can be taken out.

Jeff:
You say, “Even the CEO of Cash America is on record saying that, in order to be profitable, the industry has to turn a borrower into a long-term, repeat user. ”

Name one consumable product that does NOT have to be used long-term and repeatedly for it to remain in the market. Why single out payday loans when so many other products cause worse damage when used irresponsibly?

You say, “I do agree that something should be done about bounced-check fees. However, since that is regulated on a federal level, that will take a much larger effort than what has been put together up to this point. Just because it’s not possible to eliminate all sorts of predatory and usurious practices right now doesn’t mean that the ones that can be fixed shouldn’t be.”

So what you are saying to borrowers is, “We are going to throw you into that lion pit down there. It’s regulated by someone else and we haven’t figured out yet how to get rid of them. So until we do, in you go!”.

So you take away a borrowers cheaper alternative, leave him to the most expensive option possible until you can figure out what to do about it? Ridiculous. Try doing it the other way around, Jeff. If you cared about the consumer, you’d figure out a way to provide them with a cheaper alternative FIRST.

You say, ” I find it somewhat disturbing that Matt decided to generalize who I am or why I am against payday lending.”

I find it equally disturbing that you advocate having government FORCIBLY and AGAINST THE PEOPLE’S WILL take away something the “vast majority” use responsibly.

You say, “I am going to say that, when the faith community unites around an issue as strongly as they have the payday lending issue, then there is good reason to pay attention.”

Another fallacious argument known as “Appeal to Popularity”. Here are two other statements that were popular at the time: “The earth is flat”, and “The sun rotates around the Earth”. Those turned out to be wrong. The latter, in fact, was widely supported by the faith community. This same community persecuted and imprisoned Gallileo for his “heretical heliocentric arguments”.

Furthermore, the faith community has no more moral authority, or is economically educated, to dictate policy on this matter than anyone else. Given the faith community’s own inherent scandals (need I mention it?), I hardly see why they should be listened to when they cannot keep their own house in order.

You say, ” I don’t believe we should ban liquor stores (I enjoy a good drink every now and then) fast food restaurants (I eat on the go) or cars to people who have been in accidents (as I have been).”

Because you use those products responsibly, Jeff!!!! That’s my point. The damage done by those who don’t is far worse and reaches farther into society than payday loans. Why aren’t you attacking those other products? Because YOU use them?

You say drugs and prostitution should not be legalized. Of course they shouldn’t. Neither provides anyone real benefit even when used responsibly. But both cause significant damage when used irresponsibly.

You say, “Government regulates the prices that utilities can charge”

Totally different. Utilities are a required resource for all citizens. WIthout regulation, these businesses could hold literally hold society hostage and charge whatever they wanted.

Indigo Moon:

You say, “I understand exactly what the 28 percent will do”.

Then you can also share with us your plan for providing short-term credit to those who need it, and can find it in a manner that costs the same or less. Please share with us. Otherwise, you are harming the very consumers you purport to be helping because you are pushing them to bouncing checks.

You say, “In this business, the P&L is built around how much is collected in fees.”

Uh….hello? EVERY business is built around how much revenue is collected. So what?

You say, “The payday loan business model is self-serving. The fact that their P&L is built around the fees that they collect is self-serving. The fact that employee bonuses are directly connected to what they collect in fees is self-serving. The fact that the CFSA parades itself as an advocacy group for the customers of payday loan establishments is self-serving. The fact that the CFSA board of directors is in fact comprised of the payday loan industry leaders is self-serving.”

Name me one business not built around the concept that it is self-serving. Of course they are. How else can they stay in business? A business is not a charity. Lest we forget even Goodwill Industries (charity) cannot break even when charging $10 per hundred.

And, by the way, you are wrong. Payday loans provide a desperately needed service to the customer!!!! If they didn’t, they wouldn’t have any customers.

You say, “At minimum, 75 percent of the job is collections because they know upfront that the majority of their customers will default on their loan at some point. For the most part it is a question of when; not a question of if.”

Again, I say, “so what”? The responsibility of default, as Jon Schultz point out above, rests with the consumer. If they think they won’t be able to pay back a loan, they shouldn’t take it out in the first place.

You say, “The payday loan industry in Ohio knew in March of 2007 that these proposed bills were in the works, if not sooner. They chose to wait and see whether or not Ohio would call their bluff instead of making the choice to be pro-active when they had the chance. Now they are all taken aback because Ohio did call their bluff.”

No, they did what any business would wisely do. They waited (gambled, perhaps) because they didn’t want to self-limit their revenue. Ohio legislation may have been discussed, but it was never considered a serious threat until POLITICS entered the equation.

And while we’re discussing who is being “Self-serving”, didja read my column way up there?

You say, “When the dust settles, who do you think will be left standing strong?

The politicians, or so they believe. Here’s who won’t be:

Consumers: Will now have to resort to bouncing checks which cost more, or using unregulated offshore lenders which also cost more.
Result: Weaker

Lenders: 6000 Ohioans forced out of their job.
Result: Weaker

Average Citizen: Will have personal freedoms stripped away by the Legislature. Result: Weaker

CRL (a corrupt charity): Stronger.

Answer these direct questions, Indigo Moon:

What will you have consumers do now that you’ve taken away payday loans and they need short term credit?

Will you lend them money? If so, at what interest rate?

What will tell the 6000 people who have just lost their job?

Indigo Moon:
The callousness you show towards consumers and folks who will lose a job has destroyed your credibility.

Demand will not be altered by the elimination of supply.

This is basic economics.

What these folks did before payday loans will be to bounce checks, at 4 times the cost of a payday loan.

They may be have been looking for a job when they found that one, but your argument uses fallacious logic. Their skill set will limit whatever jobs they can find, and those jobs will be harder to find in the current recession.

You utterly lack credibility and should be ashamed of yourself for the contradictory positions you present here.

There are many facets to the PDL problem. Those of you who feel the buyback rates are outrageous or that those of us who work in the industry are predatory need to listen to some facts. Of course I can’t speak for all companies out there, but as far as mine goes, we do not “prey” on the poor. Yes, the rates are the same no matter where you go, but the company I work for does not give loans to just anybody for any amount. I don’t know how many times I’ve had people refuse a loan because I tell them they only qualify for $150 and they tell me they can get $500 from Checksmart. We give loans to less than 1/4 of the applicants because we are cautious.

Example: There is a system out there to help us keep track of who has current or defaulted loans. We use it, but places like Advance America and Checksmart don’t. Others that also use it refuse to say if the applicant has a loan out for “privacy” issues. For those that do share information, we are able to determine if the customer is over-extended based on their pay. Whether they share info or not, we can look at the history. Have they gone to 3 places in a couple days? Is it 2 weeks since they went to one (using us to pay off another)? Did they default on loans due to stopped payments or closed accounts? Automatic turn-downs to them. The Bankruptcy Hotline is another resouce. Have they ever filed for Chapter 13 or 7?

Our loan customers, like so many of us out there, live paycheck to paycheck. When something goes wrong, we are there to try to help. Yes, they are usually returning customers, but not because our fees did that to them. It’s because they did not have that $200 to spare for that bill or repair or whatever and they won’t on the next paycheck either.

I have always worked with my customers. While some lenders strictly adhere to that 2 week loan, we are willing to push the loan out a few days or so to make sure the due date falls on or after a payday. Our customers know the first time they come in that the only way to pay the loan off permanantly for some will be when they get their tax refund or some other “windfall”, but in the meantime we try to work with them. We tell them to try to work their way down. If they need $200 this time, maybe they can figure out a way to only borrow $150 the next, and so on till it’s paid off in full. My store has a high rate of payback, even with those whose checks have come back returned. Not because of a vulture waiting to snatch the money from their account (although that can happen if you try to avoid paying) but because the customers know that we will work with them. Bring us $20 a paycheck or anything you can afford, just to show you are trying. Most of our customers truly care about our business and us and understand we need to collect and they willingly pay off their debt.

As far as bad debt goes, if you want to speak of unscrupulous practices, how about the bankruptcy attorneys who send their clients out to all the payday lenders to get as much as they can, use that money to pay their attorney’s fees, and then add the lenders to their bankruptcies when they file the next day. We have had customers call us and tell us what their attorney said but refuse to do it.

I actually want some of the bill to pass. I think all workers in the field should have a background check. I think there should be a state database that doesn’t give some companies the option to not use it or not share info. I think there should be a $500 limit to loans and they should be for a month. I also think, above all else, that borrowers should only be allowed one loan at a time…period. Those reforms would do wonders for the businesses and help keep those that abuse the loan industry by slipping through the cracks in the system from slipping further into debt.

What will you do if your car breaks down and payday is 10 days away? What if your hot-water heater breaks and your payday is 7 days away? You need to go to the emergency room and don’t have insurance?
These have never been concerns for any government official I’m sure. But for the average blue collar, low to middle class citizen living paycheck to paycheck, these are frequent concerns.
Taking away payday loans will force thousands of people to declare bankruptcy. You think that payday loan companies are scum sucking leaches but it’s because you’ve never needed our services and you don’t know the real facts about what we do.
Is it fair to look at the APR of a loan when it’s generally a 14-30 day loan?
I think Ohio is mad because they are not making money on these loans. The banks and credit unions will have total control now.
Way to go!

p.s. thank you Matthew Mayer and all others for your support!! continue to call your senator or email him every chance you get and let your voice be heard, now is the time, we are running out of it QUICKLY

I am truly disappointed in government. When the government can tell a consumer where to go to borrow money, how many times they can borrow and if they can borrow, it’s a sad day for all of us. I am a 57 year old employee of one of the largest payday lenders in Ohio. Previously, I’ve worked for over 30 years in the banking and credit union industry. I left there because I was sick of telling my customers and members that I could not help them when they applied for a loan, over-draft protection or even a credit card. Why? Because they either had no credit or questionable credit. When those who stood up at the hearings in protest against the payday advance industry, were asked by the senators, where they would go to borrow money if they didn’t have payday lenders, not one of them had a good answer. Yes, some have family that can help, but not all of us do. Those people made a conscious choice to walk in that door. No one forced them. No one forced them to come back. Payday lenders were not responsible for their financial woes. They were already in that position before they came to us. I agree that some changes to the process are needed but to put 7000 people out of work, not to mention those who will be affected by the trickle down effect, because a group of self-centered, egotistical, ill-informed morons decided that we as consumers are idiots, is unconscionable. 7000+ people will be voting for you, senators.

The loss of 6000 jobs is only the beginning. How many closed payday lending business will leave their empty carcasses on the Ohio commercial real estate market? How many cleaning companies, office suppliers, contractors, maintenance personnel, etc counted payday lenders as their clients?

How about this! All of you people who are opposed to having payday loans in Ohio, and who dont use them. Mind your own damn business. We dont look down on you because you have a million credit cards, or own 3 houses because your mommy and daddy were millionaires. Dont look down on us because we are hard working and always broke because we work harder than you and dont get paid what we are worth. We mind our own business. All of the people who are opposed have CREDIT. Our customers in the payday loan industry arent fortunate enough to have been rich their whole lives, they might not have been taught to manage money because they’ve never had any to manage. None of my customers are Retarded, or Stupid. They can fend for themselves and if they need to borrow money, im glad to give it to them!!! Because I was brought up in poverty and I wish there were payday loans around when I was a kid, so that my mother could at least put food on the table once a week. But instead I had to live off of Ramen noodles and cheap hot dogs because thats all we could afford. We had to walk everywhere because we either didnt have a car, or when we did it was broke down and my mom couldnt afford the $50 bucks to fix it because her jackass of a husband left her with 3 kids and a part time job! So, i’ll say it again. If you have plenty of money and you dont NEED PAYDAY LOANS. Mind your own business because “Us Normal Folk” who all of you opposers think are stupid, or foolish, or retarded because we need payday loans, We dont care what you think, because if you dont use it, its none of your business. You just worry about your Golf Club memberships, and your Glamorous Balls and Parties.

Matthew~
I give you “KUDOS” I have been very impressed not only with your article but, also in the way you have handled all of your responses. The point of matter is that you brought up truethful “FACTS” the greatest force to help spread the trueth, was the news, and could they remain biased?? Not in my opinion,
that myself as a consumer, and registered voter hope the politicians look at for the sake of Ohio but in the same text they need to remember who voted them in office, and sleep at night well yes, I am sure they do, but will they come up for election time again, who’s money will they use to get relected, and most important who’s votes will they count on? I don’t mean for that to come off in a threatening way, but Matthew did make a point, we voted our politicians into office with the great hope they would keep our “best interest in mind” sadly those positive thoughts have been snuffed out, not to mention for those who didn’t get to see how our Senators voted, hmmm maybe this link should be posted for all to see and hear, and shame on the Senator I won’t mention the name..but for Payday lenders to be put into the same category as “prostitution” hmm that not only set me back a bit, but made me wonder what that Senator considers the credit card companies, and oil companies? and shall we talk about the banks? And yes, like many have made mentioned. Thousands in my position as a consumer know for a fact that you haven’t had to use a payday advance just for a means to get by, for whatever the reason..if you are a elderly person and your medication was changed and need extra cash just to save your life, or a single parent just to make it to the next pay check, to have food on the table. I come from a very well to do family, but haven’t been blessed with a “Silver spoon in my mouth!”
A very good point that “shannonk”brought up, I re-lived some of my past by reading that persons post. Sadly I found myself reading part of my life, and wouldn’t change a thing other than the hunger, it amazes me that America can go fight other wars in the name sake of the United States and give other countries food, money and weapons, as we sit back and allow our country to tell us what we can and can’t do with our money.
I ask this..why wasn’t it put into the consumers hand to vote how they wish to use their money? My answer is this…the money hungry, politicians that can fly in their private jets just to have lunch, and use that for a tax write off at the end of the day. Who is loading their pockets and paying their wages? WE ARE AS TAX PAYERS! WHO VOTED THEM INTO OFFICE? WE DID, WHO will VOTE for them again?? NOT I!!!! Simple answer, the politicians knew for a fact that the consumer would vote this bill down, no question!
“Indigo Moon” is nothing but a disgruntled ex employee and I can be willing to bet when he\she was employed with the payday lenders he/she didn’t have a bad thing to say, but went out of his/her way to make sure he/she helped the customer, and felt good at the end of the day. At least I would hope. I am, myself a single mother and have had to struggle, I refuse to let my children go without food. I am hardly a uneducated person, I did go to medical school and can manage my “OWN” money, whichever my circumstance, is it my own, and if I wish to get help from a paydayloan company that should be my “RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN”, last I checked we didn’t live in a communist country!
Many have made mention about the rally, well I agree with you and others…it certainly wasn’t a “bust” to know that there were way more than the news disclosed, is beyond me. If I were to take a guess of how many people were at the Capitol I will say at least 4000, whichever the number the “FACTS” were right there, the consumer, payday lenders, from every walk of life. I do know that most companies didn’t bus people in from a far, persay..most drove to Columbus from every part of Ohio, it wasn’t until they reached Columbus they were bussed, so for the reader that posted the remarks on that one, “FACTS” “FACTS” those are very important, and I also know for a fact that there were many many there that went willing, no pay as far as being on the clock or otherwise, this is a very important issue, and I am honored that the people I know went willing just to try to get the Senate to hear the voice of the consumer, and the middle class.
It didn’t matter if you were a payday lender from another company, nor a customer, yellow, purple or green, we were all walks of life trying to get our government to listen. And most of all we are all AMERICANS, and all put our pants on the same way each day, “ONE LEG AT A TIME.” I do hope that Governor Strickland thinks long and hard on his descision on signing this bill.

Against American Ideals

Cash Plus #159 – A family owned business.
Cincinnati, Ohio

The Payday Loan Bill that the Governor is planning to sign, stands against all American ideals.

From a consumer perspective, it is against Freedom of Choice. It is against Freedom of Responsibility.

From a business perspective, it is against the Free Market. It is against Competition. It is against Capitalism. It is against American Pro-Business ideals.

The Payday Loan Bill that the Governor is planning to sign, is an act of Socialism.

To impose a rate cap on a competitive industry makes no sense. The market determines that rate and customers choose the product or service based on the value they perceive. The Senators and Representatives of Ohio did not realize that Payday Loan companies do not charge more than 15%. They do not charge interest. They charge a flat fee of 15% of the principle borrowed. A customer who borrows $100 does not pay more than $15, if they follow the terms of the contract.

The customers who use the Payday Loan service, actually love the service. They choose it because it helps them in a time of need. No other business has been able to compete with the Payday Loan industry. The Payday Loan businesses all compete with each other to create a competitive marketplace. The competition within the industry has been good for consumers.

You are trying to help people who are not asking for help. Our customers do not have a problem with the service, why do you? Our customers are angry at their Ohio Representatives and Senators for assuming that they are too stupid to make decisions for themselves. Our customers are angry that you want to take this service away from them that they rely on. Our customers are smarter than you realize.

A lack of common sense has been shown by our Senators and House in Oho. The demand for short-term loans is out there. A prohibition on loans will make customers turn to the Internet for payday loans. The government is not able to stop that. Internet Payday Loans are not regulated, are not secure, are not accountable, and will create tremendous problems for Ohio consumers in the form of identity theft and wiped out bank accounts.

The congress claims that they are not trying to drive out the Payday Loan industry from Ohio. They claim that they are not tying to eliminate 6000 jobs when the economy is already struggling. This in another example of a lack of common sense by our congress. The rate cap imposed by the bill is so oppressive that no Payday Loan store will offer such risky loans for $2.33. The 28% APR is an arbitrary number which makes no sense for loans 1 month or 2 weeks long. 28% divided by 12 months is 2.33%. A customer borrows $100 for a month and only pays $2.33? What if one customer decides not to pay back this loan? How many customers will need to make up for this one loss? The answer is 43. Have you done the math?

In theory, lowering a price will create more demand. If you don’t want people to use payday loans, you should make it more expensive and tax it The Governor needs to realize that this bill will create a lot of unintended problems for Ohio. The people will still get loans. The will go to the internet, border states, and the dangerous street.

The economy is struggling. You are not solving problem with this bill. You are creating problems for your state.

Please focus on the real problems of Ohio.

Cash Plus #159.
7428 Montgomery Road
Cincinnati, OH 45236

513-245-2274 work

DMX. weighs in on the PDL situation in Ohio by re-writing the lyrics to the Ruff Ryder’s Anthem. Here is an excerpt:

Stop. Drop. Shut ‘em down. Close the PDL shop. Oh, No. That’s how the CRL rolls.
Stop. Drop. Shut ‘em down. Close the PDL shop. Oh, No. That’s how the CRL rolls.

Lenders wanna try (what).
Lenders wanna try (what).
The borrowers wonder why (what).
PDLs will die (what).
All I know is greed (what).
While all my clients bleed (what).
How will they maintain? (what).
When the APR’s insane. (what).

Yoda:
You’re mixing your metaphors (or myths, or whatever), but it’s still a good story.

Hey, we’ve been screwed by the Republicans-now the Democratic Governor-Now who the hell are we going to have as leaders?
These poseurs are stabbing the little guy in the back-they’d rather gut our economy even further just to pretend to be sticking up for a guy who will now have to beg on the street to get his car fixed-or pay multiple times more that a payday lending fee in bounced check fees. What a joke! What a bunch of self-serving, citizen-hating leeches we have running our state into the ground!

some credit unions in ohio offer stretch pay, similar to cash advance, but with much lower repayments. check it out!

i just wanted to say we can’t smoke anywhere in ohio sometimes even in our own cars so now they are telling us how to spend our money where will it end

I am one of those people who has had use payday loans. Instead of arguing about who is right and who is wrong. This comment is coming to you from someone who has NEEDED this. My husband lost his job right after the first of the year. We lost our home, our insurance, and one of our vehicles because of such a loss. I work full time, go to school and we have three children. I couldn’t even keep us hanging on. My youngest has a lung condition which he has to take medicine daily. We lost our insurance, we had no money. Payday loans help keep us going and provide my son with the medicine he needed. Which by the way is not cheap. So all of you out there who don’t agree with this method of borrowing are telling me that, I should of just, what let my son go without being treated. He would have died without his medicine. We have since bounced back from this incident. But how dare you judge people for needing help. Because there is a small percentage that abuses it. What about the people that don’t? People abuse welfare. Let’s get rid of that. People abuse alcohol, lets ban all the bars in ohio. You see what I am getting at here. Do we not have any rights anymore as Americans. I am utterly appauled at the judgement you people throw around. There are people out there who truly need help getting back on their feet. My family was one of them. I owe payday for helping through that tough period. You people have no idea what its like to lose it all, if you are the ones saying we don’t need paydays in Ohio. Shame on you for taking that right away from the people.

Funny how people like Jeff just VANISH when the tough questions get put to them, backed by hard evidence….

Okay, “Jo Job” —

Please tell us exactly how many people have been “screwed” and source your information.

If the loans are “no win for anyone”, then why are there over 24,000 stores in the US alone?

And most of all, please tell us the “plenty of other ways to get money than a payday loan shop”.

Somehow, I don’t expect an answer…

That doesn’t mean the fight is over, IndigoMoon.

For starters, there’s still the little injunction that’s going to filed shortly challenging the law’s constitutionality.

Second, it’s easy for you — who sits and remains unaffected by this move — to play cheerleader. However, your arguments have been repeatedly dismantled and you (naturally) vanished when you had no rebuttal.

Opponents like you are all the same. You run and hide when the facts are trotted out.

This blog will continue, as will further posts.

I’ve used a payday loan company RESPONSIBLY for years and have NEVER been ripped off! NOBODY will ever be able to convince me that these were not legitimate, legal, and ethical businesses, IF THEY ARE USED RESPONSIBLY! Now we are not even allowed to do this. I am so disgusted with the corrupt politicians in Ohio shutting down this entire industry, that I’ve decided to move out of Ohio as soon as I can. I’ve lived in this state for 56 years, (all my life), but now it’s time to get out, if the politicians are going to treat their constituents this way. GOOD RIDDANCE TO THE CORRUPT OHIO POLITITIANS! GOOD RIDDANCE TO OHIO’S LUDICROUS HB 545! GOOD RIDDANCE TO OHIO’S GOVERNMENT SCAM E-CHECK PROGRAM! GOOD RIDDANCE TO OHIO’S LOUSY ECONOMY AND HIGH TAXES! GOOD RIDDANCE TO OHIO’S CRAPPY WEATHER! GOOD RIDDANCE TO OHIO!

The arguments I have just read and the opinions submitted have changed my mind about PDL’s completely. Although I have never used a PDL I now understand why people need them and the logic behind the way they calculate fees. Economically PDL’s are an competitive alternative to bank fees which I can attest to are EXTREMELY high. I once erroneously bounced a single check and the bank charged me for several bounced checks. As explained to me they refused to pay any of the checks because all of the checks were dated for the same day and if they had cashed them it would have left me with a negative balance. The bank charged me $35 for each check and the merchants charged me $35 for each check. The amount I was short was 78 cents. I paid $350 in bounced check fees. One merchant called my house and threatened to have me arrested over a $175.00 bounced check unless I paid it by the end of the next day. I lost a day’s pay cleaning up the mess. I learned my lesson that day. Based on the fact that I had no credit history at that time I couldn’t get a bank loan so I had to endure alot of verbal abuse from my mother and then she refused to loan me the money to pay off the bounced check fees. I think she wanted me to go to jail to teach me a lesson. A good friend loaned me the money and I cleaned up the mess. From that point on I have kept a reserve in the bank so this would never happen again. The bank gets to keep $200 of my money each month for which I earn no interest each year. They charge me $35 dollars a month for that privilege. If I keep $500 in checking they will waive the checking account fees. If I do that I’m basically providing them a $500 loan for $35 a month. Does that make me a predatory lender?

What about grocery stores or drug stores? They suck up about 15% of my pay each month and their gross profit margin is about 20%. So for each $100.00 I spend there each week they are charging me $20 in profit. Are they also Ripping me off? What about the guy who put in my pool; did he rip me off also? I know he had about $18,000 in materials and labor invested in my pool but he charged me $27,000. He took a week to dig the hole and install the walls, floors, concrete walkway and liner and he thought it was worth $9,000 more then it cost him. Somehow the $15.00 per hundred the PDL’s charge just doesn’t seem that outragous when compared to what others make in gross profits. At least with the PDL’s I know what I’m being charged up front. With my bank I really don’t have a clue as to what it REALLY costs me to do business with them. Instead of going after the PDL’s maybe government’s need to make a law that limits how much people can charge for their products and services. I know, let’s set it at 28% per year or 2.25 cents per $1.00 they pay for a product (Don’t include their costs). That pool then would have cost me less then $21,000. How many companies will still be in business within a year?

The big flipside, particularly evident in Thomas-Rasset, is that the legal mechanisms appear to be in place now for corporate copyright holders to exercise a power way beyond the spirit of the rights they are defending, and possibly even against the interests of their own artists if anger against their policies continues and spreads. ,