I have been down this well trodden path on many previous occasions. Which is better, Windows or Linux?
For years I watched this battle form. I rather enjoyed it, Windows offered a product that while badly flawed, offered the user a one click solution. You inserted the disk, or downloaded the program, one click was all you needed.
Linux on the other hand was the choice of geeks. Geeks loved it, it took us back to the world of black screens with white (incomprehensible) writing. You could have hours of enjoyment just watching the boot process!
At the end of the fun, you faced the same black screen, and I always waited for the computer to talk to me, as in a 2001 Space Odyssey moment. ‘Oh Dave don’t touch that key’.
Most computer users had gravitated to the more gentle world offered by Microsoft Windows. Windows offered simplicity. Plug it in, away you go! And wait for it to crash.
Yesterday I was talking with a good friend, and well known name in both the entertainment and technology worlds. Charlie Boswell has what I deem the best job in the universe, his tittle at AMD is Director of Digital Media (or something similar). In practical terms this equates to him hanging out on movie shoots, and music adventures!
He is the liaison between the world of technology and Hollywood.
Recently I tried to contact him via email, and got the strange response “I’m in Morocco on a movie shoot, cell phone coverage is spotty, I’ll call you when I get back”.
He did call, and he told me of his latest adventures.
There is a term used in the computer world, it is borrowed from religious origins, Evangelist. Computer Evangelists exist both within the particular company, or may be independents who just believe in some particular technology. Charlie Boswell is a Cloud evangelist, he was one of the key members in developing AMD’s Fusion Render Cloud.
If you are not familiar with the Cloud, I suggest that you read this and this.
OK, so what has this got to do with the Windows vs Linux discussion?
Charlie wanted to show me a rather interesting use of the Cloud within the movie industry. It involves collaboration of story boards, video editing, etc.
I quickly discovered that this software had a client component. That means that bits of it need to be loaded on your local computer. Three frustrating hours later I gave up. Grabbed http://laparkan.com/buy-tadalafil/ another pc from the junk pile, and loaded it with Windows XP. A one click install later and I was into the cloud application.
I have not named the application as I do not believe that it was the companies fault, it was a combination of user error, and Linux unfriendliness.
Linux has come a long way in the past few years, I currently run Ubuntu, but have flirted with several other variations, and for the most part I have little to gripe about. Ubuntu regularly upgrades itself, it keeps Firefox, Chrome, and OpenOffice at the most recent stable releases, and I do not have to worry about the thousands of viruses and pieces of Malware that Windows is so susceptible to. But until Linux truly embraces the ‘one click’ graphical install of all software it will never be widely adopted as a desktop operating system.
I am sure that I will get my fair share of hate mail for this article from the Linux brigade. Before you send me useful advice like RTFB (Read The Fine Book), I can assure you that I did RTFB.
Windows may be known for the famous BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death), in my mind Linux is just as well known for BSOP (Black Screen Of Pain), my pet term for the entering the murky world of the Terminal application! Actually it is very aptly named, rarely do I venture into its clutches without something terminal happening!
When I install a program, I want to click download and find a bright shiny icon named install on my desktop.
It is easy to understand why my wish is unlikely to come to fruition any time soon. No pun intended, but the ROOT of the problem is inherent within the basic philosophy of the Linux community. There are more flavors of Linux than there are at your local Baskin and Robins. To create a universal installer would be a challenge of epic proportions. Add to that mix the fact that at any given time one or more Linux flavors are rolling out new versions. Windows on the other hand significantly changes only every 3 to 5 years.
I believe that salvation lays in the Cloud. As it builds ever more functionality, what you have on your desk becomes increasingly less relevant.
For now though, I have to claim defeat. Windows won this battle with a single click.
Simon Barrett
27 users commented in " Windows 1 Linux 0 – And The Cloud Wins By A Knock Out! "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackOk,there are only two cases:
1)you’re kidding
2)you’re serious
case 1:
ahahahahha!quite hilarious!=D
case 2:
You do know that Ubuntu ships the Ubuntu Software Center,which is just like Apple AppStore (with the difference that the AppStore came after it..) and through which you can install many popular apps,right?
And you surely know Ubuntu has Synaptic Package Manager installed since..well it was already there the first time I used it a couple years ago..
With Synaptic you can add repositories,install single packages with its dependencies etc etc..
Oh,and i’m sure you are perfectly aware of the fact that GNU/Linux isn’t commandline-only anymore..when did you last use a GNU/Linux distro?1990?
Try one before writing such posts..
Your description of the Linux experience is seriously outdated, and is seriously flawed. I’ve been using it as my primary desktop OS for nearly ten years, and I do not need to use the command line to install software. It just isn’t a problem unless a company pushing a proprietary application offers a barely working build of a program that they have no motivation to ensure will work with Linux.
At any rate, your conclusion that the fault in being unable to install what I can only assume is a proprietary application is in Linux rather than the company that developed it is also flawed. Your premise is that proprietary applications ought to be installed on Linux the same way they are in Windows, but the fact is that software installation is different on every major operating system. You want software installation procedures on Linux to match how you do it on Windows. Software installation on the Mac does not match the Windows install procedure either. Should Apple change how software is installed on the Mac before they can expect OS X to be widely adopted as a desktop operating system? I’m sure Mac users would laugh at that question and tell you to just stick with Windows.
But I can’t help wondering why Windows users continue bashing Linux out of one side of their mouths while claiming its installed base is so low that it isn’t worth mentioning out of the other side of their mouths. One would think that they would be too busy bashing OS X, which they claim has at least five times the installed base of Linux.
What a load of crap! Whenever I show my Linux distributions to my friends who barely know the difference between a monitor and a printer, they say “Wow! I want that! It looks so much better than Windows!”. It takes me ten minutes or so to show them how to use it, then I turn them loose. If there are any errors, they can call me, (which is exactly what they do when Windows breaks down). Maybe you should try a modern beginner-friendly distro before slinging mud.
Woah guys – you are missing the point. I am not a Windows user, I hate the damn product! But I also want ‘ease of use’. The BSOP is not it.
I’ll put out a challenge to you all, install the Linux version of http://celtx.com/ without having to leap through hoops, the BSOP is calling your name!
tar is what we put on roofs. It is also what forms part of many roads. My point is that I do not want to mess with tar, I should not need to deal with bz, or bz2 files. I just want to have a button that says Install.
Am I asking too much?
Simon
ha ha ha!
Sorry man. Every time I see a tar.[gz|bz2] file, I shudder. Wonder why Celtx did not just create a .deb or a .rpm file?
No, we already have a easy way to install packages. Just double click on a .deb, and you see a nice install in progress (IMHO that is better than windows- next next next next finish).
What we need is an easier way to package proprietary software. I want people to have this executable, which uses these *.so files etc. and bam! you have an rpm _and_ a deb package.
In Windows, You have to mess with .zip .rar .7z files as well, tar.gz and tar.bz2 is the linux equivlent of these. File Roller in installed to handle these files by default in Ubuntu. Windows handles .zip files in the same way. I still don’t see your point Simon.
So ah.. when was the last time you updated your system? Your descriptions of linux sounds like it’s from 5-7 years ago.
Secondly I am a software developer and I can certainly tell you that a questionable install process is almost always the developer’s fault. There are many options to package and install your software on linux, and many one click install options. If the developer chose not to use one of these options it is not linux’s fault, because the options are there.
Why are we approaching this from the view that ‘one click install’ is the best experience we can have? sure it’s easy, but it also is dangerous. It is my job to keep a huge number of systems running, as well as guiding people through installs, and cleaning up after their mistakes. I advocate the use of Linux over windows whenever it makes sense. I have found that installing software in windows is often more than one click, sometimes asking tons of questions that the average person doesn’t bother to read through and just click ‘next’ leaving their systems poorly configured. Also, microsoft loves making installing programs so easy, that the average user’s system is choked up with so much useless crapware that it’s almost unusable. the Ubuntu software center is very easy to use, and at worst (in most cases) I have to have them type out ‘sudo apt-get…’ from a terminal. that can be much easier than walking them through navigation of some poorly laid out download page (with all that crapware advertising confusing them). the point is, easy and better aren’t the same, and what we need is better education for the user so that more than one-click, and the minor inconveniences of having to think about what you’re doing isn’t scary.
OK, I had a look.
The people that created this application, didn’t know how to create an installer or something you just ‘run directly out of a zip-file’ (in windows-speak).
You would have gotten just as far with the windows-version of the application, if it was created by an Apple Mac user which did not understand Windows.
Are you asking too much ? No, not really, but it is the job of the creator of a program to know how a little about the environment where the application should run.
I don’t think this says anything about Linux, just about the experience of (or time invested to make a working package by) the creator of this program with Linux.
Maybe I can add an other example, it is the same as someone building an application in .Net which works on Windows 7, but didn’t test on Windows XP and doesn’t run on Windows XP because the right version of .Net isn’t installed and it wasn’t included in the package. Or at the very least a link on the website pointing to the Microsoft site to know what you should download.
Does that help to explain it ?
So, Simon, you’re going to blame the whole Linux community for the failure of one company, Celtix, to make available their software in a STANDARD Linux package format like .deb or .rpm? They’re to blame for your poor experience, not the Linux community.
Of course, now that you’ve brought this to light, I’m sure lot’s of community members would volunteer to help Celtix setup an automated build to create a standard package. Then it would be up to Celtix to actually approach several of the standard repository owners to get it included…
This took me all of two minutes to figure out, and I did it all from the GUI.
1) download tarball from celtex site
2) extract tarball by clicking on it
3) right click on ‘celtex’ executable, select ‘open in terminal’ and the application opens.
Proof:
http://i.imgur.com/acf5G.png
It is kind of crappy that the people who wrote the application did not bother with a readme file. Don’t blame your OS for that though.
http://i.imgur.com/xosZk.png
This screenshot tells you how to do it, click on the file, select ‘run’ and the application runs.
I use linux on a majority of my computers. It is very stable. But I agree with Simon, there are to many variations of linux and too much weird command line things that I cannot expect my little sister (who is 30) to want to have to deal with. She wants her computer to run her iphone, play netflix online, check facebook, mess around on the internet and watch DVDs. Linux can only do two of those things painlessly.
I use opensuse. I tried to install Ubuntu before 11.3 came out and due to some anomaly it wouldn’t install. This is doubtless due to my own ignorance and incompetence but I am no longer a teenager and my brain is full of the clutter of the last sixty years and doesn’t want to absorb more – sigh, (oh for some more ram, a bigger hard disk and a better processor, and my eyes aren’t too good either.)
With all the above and still not being able to get my printer, wifi, or wacom tablet configured in opensuse without delving into the nether regions of the operating system I use the dreaded, shudder, “other system.”
I recently taught and will continue to teach graphics with opensource programs. I am a staunch advocate of FOSS software and am ambivalent about its leakage onto the windows platform. But I think this same leakage is a vindication of the of Simon Barrett’s views.
Would you in your loyalty to Linux insist that no linux program open itself to windows? I think this would be be counter productive. What is needed is that linux become as useable as the programs that exist within it’s domain.
If this were to occur then I could truthfully tell my students, (some of them more competent senior citizens than myself), that linux is for them. And that, truthfully, the only difficulty they will have is in learning a new interface.
Thank you
Nolan
Installing Celtx on Ubuntu GNU/Linux is simple if you do it from getdeb(dot)net.. See here: http://www.getdeb.net/updates/Ubuntu/10.10/?category=Video%20Tools
As for software installation in the modern GNU/Linux, this is typically done via a package management system. The package management system in GNU/Linux is superior to any other type of software distribution today. Packages get updated immediately when fixes are available, uninstallation of software is clean removal, and installing software is as easy as clicking the mouse.
On the other hand, in windows all software gets gobbed onto the machine, and then installs its own update mechanism, which usually attacks the user as soon as they login. So people get irritated, decline updates to software (thinking they are already up-to-date with the plethora of windows updates that appear), and then they become vulnerable. Case in point, adobe reader – check recent news.
Your article is completely misguided, as you obviously need to learn a lot more about how modern GNU/Linux works. Have you ever even used GNU/Linux? I’m not convinced.
WOW, for me it was fairly simple download the file you directed or pointed to and then I right-clicked and selected extract here(in this case it was the Downloads folder in Ubuntu 10.04). It created the Celtx Folder and then I doubled clicked on the celtx file and then I got a terminal window which did something on its own(I guess it was the command to run it) then the application opened on its own running 100% and I did not have to install or do anything you claim to have done on windows. It was more like how some OSX apps run sometimes. So Windows 0 AND Linux/Ubuntu 1,0000. Sorry dude stop writing these complaints Linux has advanced so much the command line is not needed unless your doing some real Geek(Smart) related stuff like Atom Smashing and hell I think they got a GUI like app for that too. I LOVE UBUNTU! Been free of the Windows virus for 4 years and counting.
@NOLAN,
Ubuntu is already there; I have no idea what issues you had but Ubuntu 10.04 runs on about 80-90% of PC, Laptops and Netbooks. The one thing I tell folks is to go with Dell’s as they work great with Ubuntu also there is system76 and some others oh an even HP systems do a fair job of installing Ubuntu. So it is great you are a Suse fan the more Linux the better. I too use Ubuntu for all my Graphic design and web development needs and inkscape and GIMP and some other apps are a great example that you can tell your students that they can use it as a mainstream tool instead of paying insane amounts of monies for things Like Adobe Photoshop. Sure if your a Professional and need it due to Job requirements and a company is willing to provide great. I do some freelance work and all of it is done with the two applications I mentioned above, I stoped paying for Adobe products a long time ago. As for web design I use Aptana which has all the features dreamweaver does. And if one needs the design view while coding Kompozer can provide that. I don’t think I can ever go back to using Windows ever, it has nothing to offer me,
If you install Ubuntu and at the end of the process you are left with a black screen filled with incomprehensible gibberish, then something has gone very, very wrong.
When I use Windows, I feel like I have one hand tied behind my back. How do I search for a string of text in a directory full of files with unknown extensions? I usually have to install Activestate Perl and write my own routine. Simlinks rule, keep my system feeling clean, and are very important to how I work, but the last time I checked the closest alternative in Windows was so difficult to implement and came with so many coveats that I didn’t even bother to try it. Apparently you still have to defrag your hard drive every few weeks in Windows 7. And what’s up with drive letters? I mean seriously, could you come up with a more mickey mouse way of mounting devices? Oh, and X kicks serious butt compared to Remote Desktop. And I am constantly mystified by file permissions on Windows systems. The only reason I even bother to keep the Windows that came pre-installed on my computer is for watching NetFlix (not available on Linux), but using it always feels like walking through an unfamiliar, bad neighborhood.
Anyway, I’m glad you are using Ubuntu, although I’m a little confused about your experience with it. This install didn’t go well for you, and that’s unfortunate, but it would be easy for the company to fix by either creating separate .deb and .rpm packages or including an install script.
Anyway, I just tried on a pretty clean Lucid system and I did have problems. When I double-clicked the celtx and celtx-bin files, nothing happened. So I ran it from the command line and got this message:
./celtx-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libjemalloc.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Okay, pretty cryptic stuff there. It turns out that the problem is a list of shared libraries that were bundled with the application but not installed where they are supposed to be found on Linux. It looks like this was written with Solaris in mind (where you can set the library path with an environment variable), not Linux (even though they were smart enough to recognize linux on their download page). Run the following lines from wherever you extracted the .tar.bz2 file to:
sudo cp -i libjemalloc.so /lib
sudo cp -i libmozjs.so /lib
sudo cp -i libxpcom.so /lib
sudo cp -i libxpcom_core.so /lib
sudo cp -i libsoftokn3.so /lib
sudo cp -i libsqlite3.so /lib
./celtx-bin
That should do it. Yes, I had to break out the command line to do it, but I’ve had to do that with windows programs also. Anyway, I hope that helps.
@SPARTAN2276 – I’m still not sure why ./celtx worked for you and not me. I deleted all those .so files and then tried it again with sudo and it worked. The only way I can get it to run without manually copying the libs to the /libs folder or updating /etc/ld.so.conf is to sudo it, which I really can’t recommend. Any thoughts?
@Simon Barrett
I’m sorry but your example of installing Celtx as being difficult was a bad one. It is the exact same process as installing Firefox: extract the tarball and run the script within the directory and boom, the program is up and running.
Most software that you download from a tarball has instructions for installing it, and it is usually very simple.
>So I ran it from the command line and got this message:
>./celtx-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libjemalloc.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
You’re supposed to run the ./celtx file. It sets up the environment needed for running celtx-bin
Alternatively you can execute “export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=.” (which tells the OS to look for shared libraries in the current directory) and then you can run the ./celtx-bin file.
@Eugene – seriously? You don’t think I tried both those things? This is Ubuntu Lucid, as stated in the article.
One click? Installing Windows is not, and never was, that easy. I installed XP on an HP business computer once and then I had to go online to find the drivers for the NIC. If I didn’t have multiple computers I would have had to go over to a friends house to download the drivers. The only simplicity when it comes to Windows installation is that Microsoft has bullied their way onto every computer at the store, so you don’t have to install it. Linux would be the same way if it were on every computer. Lots of people use Windows, but very few “choose” it. Even installing Ubuntu is easier than installing Windows 7. Just wait until it locks you out for changing a piece of hardware, cuts off your NIC, and you have to read a line of 50 numbers to a computer with terrible voice recognition skills.
@Eugene – Okay, that was snarky. I hadn’t had my coffee yet and I apologize. Those are both excellent suggestions, and are, in fact, the first things I tried. By the way, I just tried in Ubuntu Karmic, and simply extracting the archive and double-clicking Celtx works fine. So it might be a problem with my copy of 10.04, since spartan2276 mentions 10.04 specifically in his post and it seems like running celtx worked for him and he didn’t mention running as root. I’m curious what exactly the difference is for me running as root, but I haven’t had time to dig into the scripts yet.
Your sudo problem might stem from the permissions you have set on those files. They all should have the reading bits set, in order for ld-linux to load them.
I just checked and ld-linux actually outputs the same message if the permissions are wrong.
You have some point there, but most of your point are obsolete. I have been using Ubuntu Linux for more than 2.5 years and its getting better and better. My latest version 10.04LTS I never used the terminal, yet everything was done through synaptic or the most easiest way through the Ubuntu Software Center.
what i can interpret from this article is you maybe tried linux long time ago, actually in ubuntu regular users does not have to deal with terminal or maybe just in special cases. i will give you an example in windows enviroment if you want to install application you need to search for one download or purchase and then click next next next. in ubuntu on the other hand you just open the software center and just pick your application.
you may ask what if the application not in the repository of the center, well actually most application nowadays have a binary package for ubuntu, fedotra, and many others so it is also a one click process. for me as a geek linux just give me high degree of tweaking capabilities, if i want to have my applications all up-to date then i will modify my sources list if i want to tweek my menus tweek the file manager. all this stuff as you said need black screen which is very fluent and easy to use, dark screen does not mean hard or spooky woh cant touch it is so easy, many blogs forums will tell you copy this and paste this which will not cost you 1 second which is less time consuming and also this is just not for regular users. regular users does not need to deal with that, i advice you to look at the lastest ubuntu 10.10 or 10.4 and see by your self
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