Editorial by Zuzana Kukol, www.REXANO.org
Las Vegas, NV, July 24, 2007–Exotic animal owners always have fights about what is better, have a state/county with no laws or have some laws, thus reducing chance of worse laws being introduced.
My answer always was “KILL BILLSâ€, because if you let the government regulate some species, they come next time trying to regulate more species or even ban them; it is always easier to add more species onto existing laws than make new ones.
Many often used Florida as the state with perfect exotic animal laws where nothing could go wrong.
I had a big surprise the 3rd week of July 2007, when I got a phone call from fellow exotic animal owner being in total shock over the ‘out of the blue’ new law targeting Class I animal exhibitors in Florida. She talked to many fellow Florida Class I animal owners (tigers, lions, chimpanzees, etc…) and they claimed that according to their information FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission) was only changing rules for reptiles.
To me none of this was a surprise, I have been documenting Florida’s legislation and FWC rule making since February 2007 on www.REXANO.org website on our Florida Legislative Alerts Page: http://www.rexano.org/StatePages/FloridaFrame.htm
 Many of us have been posting all the information on numerous Internet Elists and forums. We encountered many road blocks:
- many assumed that only reptiles were affected, and rather than help fellow exotic (herp) owners in their fight against more unfair regulation, some non reptile owners left them to fight alone, while some helped fighting recognizing this was going to be used later as a ‘stepping stone’ to include more species and regulations later on
- even within the herpetological community, many assumed that ‘somebody else†will fight for their rights, even though the Florida herpetological community is supposed to be one of the most unified groups
- when it came to the actual attendance at meetings and hearings, many people attending were people not affected by this yet, like bird owners, but smart enough to know that they could be targeted next year as well. They realized there is a need to unite and fight for each other rights, all animal owners sticking together.
How did it start?
The bill was first introduced in 2006 by state Representative Poppell and Senator Posey. Animal owners were able to stop it in 2006. Poppell supposedly has a serious snake phobia and publicly admits it. This mess started with a photo of a large constrictor wrapped around an alligator.
In early Spring 2007, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission was implementing a regulation that requires some exotic pet reptiles to have microchips similar to those used on cats and dogs. The measure targeted African Rock, Burmese, Reticulates and Amethystine/scrub pythons, Green anacondas and Nile monitor lizards. The supposed need for this was alleged dumping of overgrown pet pythons or lizards in Everglades and them taking over native fauna and flora. This was admitted not to have been a public safety issue as nobody was attacked or killed by these escaped reptiles (many getting loose during natural disasters and multiplying, not really being released on purpose by irresponsible owners).
The new FWC rule seemed like a good idea to most people, since it was presented as $100 registration to control the ‘idiots’ who were supposedly releasing their unwanted pets.
While everybody‘s attention was on new FWC regulation, a so called “Python bill “ S2766 was introduced in Florida legislature by Senator Posey. It was also introduced in the House as H1505 by Representative Poppell.
However, it was the Senate version 2766: Relating to Venomous Reptiles & Reptiles of Concern, that was signed by the Governor Crist and is causing all the confusion.
What was really happening?
The ‘Python bill†really started as a reptile bill, and original version filed on March 2, 2007 of the bill has no mention of Class I exhibitors. The first paragraph of the bill states:
 “S2766   GENERAL BILL/CS by General Government Appropriations; Posey (Similar CS/H 1505) Venomous Reptiles & Reptiles of Concern [RPCC]; requires FWC to establish list of reptiles of concern subject to regulation; prohibits unlawful capturing, keeping, possessing, transporting, or exhibiting of venomous reptiles or reptiles of concern; authorizes commission to inspect said reptiles held in captivity; authorizes commission to revoke licenses & permits under certain circumstances; requires commission to adopt rules for transportation of said reptiles, etc. Amends Ch. 372. APPROPRIATION: $75,000. EFFECTIVE DATE: 07/01/2007 except as otherwise provided.â€Â
The version amended and introduced on April 18, 2007, S 2766C1, had this little snippet in it : “providing for certain financial guarantees by Class I wildlife exhibitors;â€
The version from May 2, 2007, S 2766ER, still had the same language:†providing for  certain financial guarantees by Class I wildlife exhibitors;â€
The last 2 versions also had a whole new paragraph relating to Class IÂ added (see below).
Bill was approved by Governor on June 27, 2007.
Explaining the confusion
While the name and bill intro didn’t change, it still referred to reptiles only, the April and final May version added paragraph related to Class I which includes some big cats, apes, hippos, elephants, buffalo and other reptiles. Class I currently doesn’t include cougars, but there is a talk of moving them to Class I as well.
- The annual permit to possess ROCs (Reptiles of Concern) will cost $100, instead of being a no-cost permit.
- The bond for exhibiting venomous reptiles has increased from $1000 to $10,000.
- Exhibitors of Class I wildlife must secure a bond in the amount of $10,000 or guarantee financial responsibility by acquiring a comprehensive general liability insurance with minimum limits of $2 million per occurrence and $2 million annual aggregate. The FWC will draft future rules to determine how exhibitors of Class I species may meet the bonding requirement. Although the law requiring the bonding and/or financial responsibility guarantee goes into effect July 1, 2007, exhibitors of Class I species will not have to comply until these rules are drafted. The deadline to submit comments to linda.harrison@myfwc.com is/was July 30, 2007.
- This bill was also supposed to address public safety. In case of a personal injury, the 2 million liability insurance would likely cover the injured person. However, the $10,000 bond which many will choose is payable to FWC and not the attack victims, so how does it protect the injured ones or improves the public safety?
http://www.rexano.org//Safety.htm
What are the issues?
Insurance in 2 million range is almost impossible to get, and if you find it is extremely expensive. Since $10.000 bond is cheaper in the long run, it is safe to assume most Florida exhibitors will choose that option. The problem is it is payable to FWC, who is the same agency implementing this law, enforcing it, inspecting the permit holders and having power to revoke the permit and keep the money. It seems to give too much power and end up being easy money maker for FWC.Â
The way I also understand it, out of state exhibitors traveling to Florida might have to comply with this as well.
What can be done?
Florida (actually all US) animal owners need to organize NOW and oppose any more laws, fight against snake laws even if you don’t own one. Get together, start a legal fund and hire a lawyer to see if anything can be done about the unfairness of the bond issue and if any Constitutional laws were being broken, not just with the bond, but with the unethical misleading bill title, by inserting paragraph relating to Class I in a bill named “Relating to Venomous Reptiles & Reptiles of Concernâ€
Don’t assume information will come to you, check state and local legislation to keep informed what is going on. Even though this was very sneaky, it was still well publicized on the Internet and in the news to some degree. To quote one Florida exotics owner:
“If any one bothered to read meeting agendas and notes on prior meetings, it was clear these meetings were not about reptiles only. My observation has been that attendance at the tag meetings during the last two years has been rather pathetic considering the total number of animal owners/permit holders in Florida. I’d say a total of 10 max attended if even that. Of course the regular animal rights (AR’s) activists were there every time. Also, the fact that two professionals who were scheduled to attend and speak on behalf of primates but did not show looked particularly bad. Those on the committee made comments like “Well if they don’t even show up to support why they believe what they are doing should be allowed (meaning exhibit) then they must not feel too strongly about it.””
According to St. Petersburg Times article from July 1, 2007 titled ‘Growls greet law’, that qotes the bill sponsor Senator Posey:
“Posey said his bill was meant to affect only reptile owners, not exotic-mammal exhibitors or trainers. The amendment concerning mammals was added at the last minute by Sen. JD Alexander, R-Lake Wales, Posey said.Capt. John West of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission also said the amendment came from Alexander.”I was surprised because he never talked to me about it, just put it on my bill,” Posey said.
Alexander didn’t return calls seeking comment. An aide, Rachel Barnes, said Alexander supported the amendment but didn’t propose it.Rather, Sen. Michael S. Bennett, R-Bradenton did, at Alexander’s request, she said. Bennett’s name is listed with the amendment on the Senate’s Web site.
“I don’t remember why we did that,” Bennett said. “Somebody asked me to put that on but I don’t know why.”â€
No wonder Americans are becoming less trusting of politicians and their dirty tricks. If this is done in animal related bills, one can only assume it is done in politics across the board.
No wonder we have phrases like dirty politics, corrupt politicians and something about not wanting to know how sausage and laws are made.
Species included in Florida Class I:
1. Chimpanzees (genus Pan)
2. Gorillas (genus Gorilla)
3. Gibbons (genus Hylobates)
4. Drills and mandrills (genus Mandrillus)
5. Orangutans (genus Pongo)
6. Baboons (genus Papaio)
7. Siamangs (genus Symphalangus)
8. Gelada baboons (genus Theropithecus)
9. Snow leopards (Panthera uncia)
10. Leopards (Panthera pardus)
11. Jaguars (Panthera onca)
12. Tigers (Panthera tigris)
13. Lions (Panthera leo)
14. Bears (family Ursidae)
15. Rhinoceros (family Rhinocerotidae)
16. Elephants (family Elephantidae)
17. Hippopotamuses (family Hippopotamidae)
18. Cape buffalos (Syncerus caffer caffer)
19. Crocodiles (except dwarf and Congo) (family Crocodilidae)
20. Gavials (family Gavialidae)
21. Black caimans (Melanosuchus niger)
22. Komodo dragons (Varanus komodoensis)
Class I additions to what was supposed to be a ‘reptile’ bill.
(2)Â No person, party, firm, or corporation shall
 6 exhibit to the public either with or without charge or
 7 admission fee, any Class I wildlife, as defined in s. 372.922
 8 and ch. 68A-6, Florida Administrative Code, without having
 9 first guaranteed financial responsibility, in the sum of
10Â $10,000, for any liability which may be incurred in the
11Â exhibition to the public of Class I wildlife. The commission
12Â shall adopt, by rule, the methods of payment that satisfy the
13Â financial responsibility, which may include cash, the
14Â establishment of a trust fund, an irrevocable letter of
15Â credit, casualty insurance, a corporate guarantee, or any
16Â combination thereof, in the sum of $10,000 which shall be
17Â posted with the commission. In lieu of the $10,000 financial
18Â responsibility guarantee required in this paragraph, the
19Â exhibiter has the option to maintain comprehensive general
20Â liability insurance, with minimum limits of $2 million per
21Â occurrence and $2 million annual aggregate, as shall protect
22Â the exhibiter from claims for damage for personal injury,
23Â including accidental death, as well as claims for property
24Â damage which may arise. Proof of such insurance shall be
25Â submitted to the commission.Â
Â
36 users commented in " What are tigers, hippos and apes doing in a Florida reptile bill and why politics is the dirtiest job on Earth… "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackNone of the people who make their living from breeding, exploiting and discarding dangerous animals will like this new law, but any real sanctuary, or real animal lover will see that it is a very necessary first step. This bill requires the owners to take responsibility for their animals by posting a bond or carrying insurance. You have to have insurance to drive a car, so it only makes sense that if you are going to keep animals in your backyard that can kill and maim, you should have to take some sort of financial precaution. It costs more than 5000.00 a year to properly care for just one large cat, and many of these same people who are whining wouldn’t even think twice about breeding another litter of tiger cubs, or “rescuing” another lion. They just don’t want to be held accountable if someone gets hurt or if they decide to walk away from the whole thing when it is no longer fun or profitable. To see a video of what many of these facilties look like go to: http://www.veoh.com/videos/v853340GHFGdrrh
Lets keep this simple. People have a right to own animals….even large and dangerous animals. Animal Rights activists do not like this fact. They also do not have enough support yet to take away peoples right to keep and breed animals and wildlife. So what they do instead is they try to pass as many laws as possible that seem like they are good and benefiting animals but are really just one step closer to their ultimate goal of removing peoples right to keep animals.
I’ll give you an example. If they were really concerned with people dumping their unwanted animals, then they would try to pass a law that punishes people who dump their animals. Instead, they try to paint a false picture that breeders all keep their animals starving in filthy cages with no water so that is becomes easier for the masses to support them in passing laws that restrict or prohibit breeders. For one, animals that are not properly cared for usually do not breed well so most breeders do in fact take very good care of their animals. They try to take away peoples right to keep and breed animals by brainwashing everyone into passing laws that stop people from breeding animals. They have done a good job at this so far. They have added new terms to the dictionary (puppy mill). They might not be able to take away your right to keep animals, but they might just be able to make animals no longer be available to be kept.
Carole, please, your ignorance and propaganda is baseless. Have you had any escapes, mauls, or injuries lately at your “rescue” facility? Do you not think state officals take notice to your lies and manipulations, especially of the facts? Your a disgrace in the name of animal conservation. Hippocrisy is common in the world, and your a prime example of it.
Carole, you call yourself a “sanctuary”, yet there is no such designated or official “sanctuary” license. It is just a word. I have 3 cats which I personally rehabilitated and would have no where to go, thus I could say I’m a sanctuary, but prefer to be an education facility and the work I’ve done with children (as opposed to “fur balls” and tours for the wealthy) is something I’m proud of and will make permanent change in the way they feel about wildlife. I sacrifice many, many things for myself so my animals can have the best. And you think its a good idea to take them from me and have them killed (euthanized) because I don’t have $10,000 lying around!!!! What hypocracy this is. Just like J.D. Alexlander who is a millionaire, only the wealthy can live their dreams.
Regarding “safety” simply look at Florida’s statistics. Only handlers and owners have been injured and they chose as adults to take that risk. There may be a few incidents where the public was hurt but it was BECUASE THE LAW WAS BEING BROKEN. THOSE are the people who should lose their licenses and animals, not me or others who have never had a violation or incident of any kind and have given shelter ourselves to unwanted animals. If mine are taken from me, I promise there will be Hell to pay!
Man, I smell stench. Oh, Big Rat Rescue has posted! Any new lies today Baskin?
Carole Lewis Baskin bred and sold many of the animals that this legislation will now affect, and most of their owners are not as well-heeled as she is…thanks to the million-dollar-a-year ‘scamtuary’ she runs featuring such commercial activities as day tours, night tours, children’s tours, feed the tiger tours, spend the night in a cabin tours, weddings, political events, etc. When do these animals ever get to rest? And she accuses others of exploitation?
Since this bond is payable to FWC and not a ‘victim’ if in fact there were one, it does nothing to insure public safety or compansate someone for an injury. All it does is impose still another financial burden on people who choose to love and care for exotics.
To learn more about the ‘scamtuary’ that is Baskin’s Big Cat Rescue view the expose’ at http://phoenixexotics.org/BigCatonBayNews9.wmv and read Ms Baskin’s ad below in which she clearly supported private ownership of exotic cats and mentions that they make loving and trusting housepets. What changed her mind? Could it be that she found a way to have others support her private collection of cats by becoming a non-profit and speaking out against the very people she sold these cats to? Only the wesite address anad phone numbers have been updated. The advertisement is Carole’s.
IF YOU ARE WILD ABOUT CATS check out Wildlife On Easy Street at their new address: http://bigcatrescue.org/ Meet our 100+ wildcats, join our membership or volunteer program and learn about exotic cats and more. To help fund this much needed Sanctuary we offer the video “Big Cat Companions” $28.00, the book “Exotic Cats As Housepets” $35.00, Bed & Breakfast at the refuge in Tampa, FL $75.00 per night, and these special cats to the right person: Serval trio or caracal trio, proven $5000, cougar pair $600, cub $450 and 3/4 wild but 100% tame! Bengal F1 male kittens. Sire: Amurian Leopard Cat and Dam: F1 Bengal, raised in the house and too gorgeous for words $1000. 12802 Easy St., Tampa, FL 33625. 813-920-4130 or 813-493-4564
New Cat Video! Big Cat Companions is an informative and entertaining two-hour tape from the same people who brought you “Exotic Cats As Housepets.” More information on the most frequently asked questions such as caging, teaching not to bite, leash training, diet and health care for tigers, leopards, cougars, lynxes, bobcats and more. (13 species) How to get the most enjoyment out of your feline
EXOTIC CATS AS HOUSE PETS VIDEO! Two hour tape depicting the trials and rewards of sharing our home with Bobcats, Servals, Caracals, Cougars, Ocelots, Margay, Canadian and European Lynx, and more (14 species). Learn bottle-feeding, litter training, bathing, leashing and how to raise an exotic cat into a loving and trusting house pet. Great tips on out door cage construction, play yards, feeding, worming and vaccinating. $28 12802 Easy Street, Tampa, Florida 33625. 813-920-4130 or 813-493-4564
I usually refrain from commenting on anything that Carole Baskin has to say but since freedom of speech is a right that we still manage to have in 2007, here goes: Let’s see breeding, exploiting and discarding exotic big cats–something that Ms. Baskin is well known for–why is Ms. Baskin still in business? I guess the breeding of another tiger litter was not as profitable for Ms. Baskin as running her “so called sanctuary”–no, the donations and corporate sponsorships that are afforded to sanctuaries was much more lucrative and attractive to someone who is consumed with so much greed and hypocracy.
To penalize individuals who take excellent care of their exotic cats by asking them to now carry insurance is grossly unfair. Ms. Baskin’s facility has a history of maulings–she and others like her are the ones who should suffer the consequences of their inability to care for exotic cats.
[This post has been removed by a site administrator. Impersonating other posters is not permitted. Please play nicely.]
Carole reminds me of Cartman from South Park. Short, wide, whiney, annoying, and greedy. I wish I had a clip of her saying…”Moommmmmmmmmm”, I want myyyy tigerrrsss, instead of “Mom, I want Cheesey poofs!” lol
Screw you guys, I’m going home!
well it’s about time you came clean, carole! you make us all feel a lot better now that we understand our role in your scheme of things.!!
as for the underhanded way the mammals were put on the reptile bill–well, that’s politics as usual anymore there is a term politians use for covering their S+++++ but i can’t remember it–as they can’t remember who or why it was done—just a FAVOR for a rich constiuent. money talks—animal owners pay the price. we should all remember these characters at election time–they need to be in jail not in office. someone needs to investigate them
Big Cat Rescue is nothing to brag about. Trust me, I’ve been there. Seriously folks, those who live in FL should form a group to discuss things! Tell me a time and a place!
Carole Lewis Baskin from Bigcat Rescue calls her facility a ‘Sanctuary’, but she is nothing more than an exhibitor making a living off her animals. She has bought, breed, and sold animals for years and along the way saw the writings on the wall when the animal rights’ groups steadily became more powerful.
Her strategy changed. Instead of making a living off the animals she breed, she decided to call herself a sanctuary which houses the many animals she has breed or bought. Carole uses deception to obtain funds from the unsuspecting public by claiming abuse of animals that she herself has puchased. Some of her animals she claims were abandoned, but the tuth is she is being paid large sums of money to house these animals. She didn’t rescue them, she is boarding them.
She is not an advocate for animals, her desire is to be the only facility standing in Florida where the public can view these animals up close and personal for a fee. She doesn’t care that thousands of animals may be in jeopardy of euthanasia by the Reptile Bill she diligently pursued to have passed.
For those of you readers that don’t know of Ms. Lewis Baskin, please be careful of supporting a facility that is financially rich. Monies came from her deceased husband who was reported mssing and never found, and from the poor unsuspecting public that give donations based on false abuse claims of animals.
My fella Americans, we need to expose this thievin’ fraud in the news! Call up CNN, or my favorite news channel, FOX! Carole, when my term is up, I will own 10 Tigers on my ranch. In all due respect mad’am, kiss my arse! Everythang’s bigger in Texas! This isn’t the American view. We don’t live in a communist nation. Get a life, get a real job, and quit piddlin on the internet. When was the last time you cleaned your Tiger cage? Oh wait, you have volunteers (brainwashed zombies)
“The toes you step on today, is on the foot that will kick your ass tommorrow”
Those of us who live (before and after the big cats arrived) next to the Carole Stairs Lewis Baskin Big Cat collection formerly known as Wildlife on Easy Street would like to know why those that support this breeding compound, and more importantly, the officials of Hillsborough County… feel this place should be allowed to remain in such a heavily populated residential community!! What about the prior escapes and injuries at that place not to mention the constant nose burning eye watering stench of all that cat piss in the air. And what ever happened to Jack Donald Lewis, Carole’s much older former millionaire husband? Why can’t any one seem to locate his whereabouts or remains? Why has Carole refused to take a lie detector test? Where is CSI and 48 hours??
Carole’s little rant up there pretty much tells the truth. She spelled out exactly what she has been doing since she went into business. I will take it as a confession and I will not allow her to write it off as sarcasm. I’m a bit afraid of what the fallout will be from that confession but oh well.
How many owners has she separated animals from who still don’t know that she sucks up to the HSUS and that she is doing this as part of an “animal rights” agenda?
Another thing to ponder: Horses kill humans of all ages quite regularly. Let us confront this fact NOW instead of when the animal rights activists decide to dictate to us. EVERY excuse for banning possession of tigers applies to banning possession of horses. Neither animal is inherently “safe” by the most uptight of standards. Yet find me even one accusation that minors or the public are put in danger when a totally untrained person possesses a horse or walks it in public. Find me people who demand that paranoid precautions be taken because a “dangerous” 1,000 pound horse is somewhere near children.
Even if the animal rights activists fail to take us down that road to banning possession of horses and dogs, and mandatory spay/neuter is pretty close to a ban on possession because where will most families get dogs, it is still wrong because discriminating against the owners of tigers denies them equal protection as guaranteed by that U.S. constitution that some people place beneath their agendas. We tolerate what horses do to people for very good reasons and a lot of that is for the sake of the horses. We can tolerate what tigers occasionally do to humans for the sake of the tigers. Look at the hype really hard because the people who pretend to love tigers keep trying to get people to get rid of them because tigers are allegedly very dangerous. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist. Animal rights activists sell, often enough, the idea that any animal’s life is worth more than a human life, and in a conversation like this they will deny the same thing that is easy to find in quoted material from speeches and pamphlets. Let’s stick with the often quoted lines about a child’s life being the same as a rat’s or whatever.
If that is the case, then the loss of one human’s life only justifies the loss of one animal’s life, if that. Horses aren’t always killed for killing humans. For someone who advocates the worth of animal lives to say that we have to destroy all of a species for being dangerous, something screwy has to be going on.
My position is that captive tigers are only a little bit dangerous. This is just like horses are a little bit dangerous, your car is a little bit dangerous, and life is worth the risks that you have to take to live it. The worth of an animal can be weighed against the worth of a human, and even if you subscribe to the idea that an animal is always worth less than a human, it has some worth. To justify the destruction of tigers because of the risk to humans, one must assume that tigers are worthless. Every organization that wants tigers out of private hands has failed one big test. They have failed to make every possible effort to rehome the displaced tigers. It’s too late now. They’ve already shown the lack of quality of their thought. If animals had rights, then each animal would have the right to an opportunity to continue to live and to reproduce. We have animal rights activists denying the basic rights of animals and telling people that the animals are too dangerous to be around humans at the same time that they say that the animals are worth more than humans are.
It’s better just to throw out the animal rights activists. I believe Carole Baskin when she says that she is out to scam the rest of us. PETA and the HSUS, essentially the same organization, certainly have, and Baskin keeps bringing the HSUS into this stuff in Florida.
So Ms. Baskin didn’t wish to take a polygraph? Hmm, well, in my professional opinion, that means one thing….Time to bring my team to Tampa
YEAHHHHHH!!!!! (Opening song starts)
I believe the July 25, 2007, 11:39 am post by someone named “Carole Baskin” was not from Carole Baskin of Big Cat Rescue. Some of the other posts contain outdated information (e.g. “spend the night in a cabin tours” — that was eliminated a long time ago). If you are able to find anything at http://www.bigcatrescue.org that talks about spending the night in a cabin — or many other things people have mentioned in posts — it’s because the web site has been around a very long time (has thousands of web pages) and is only sporadically maintained by non-professionals. Not everything has been removed from the web site that should have been. I think you would be hard-pressed — starting at the home page — to navigate to any page containing old information, but yes if you spend enough time on the web site you’ll stumble across a page that hasn’t been updated.
I’ve been a volunteer at Big Cat Rescue for almost two years. No one who has first-hand knowledge of the Big Cat Rescue as it is today would make the terrible accuastions some have made here. I can honestly say “you don’t know what you’re talking about”!
As far as Carole Baskin’s past actions, don’t we all have things in our past that we wouldn’t do if we knew then what we know now? Please take at look at “History and Evolution” which describes how and why Ms. Baskin’s thinking has changed over the years: http://www.bigcatrescue.org/historyandevolution.htm
There are obviously people posting here who have a deep, personal grudge against Carole Baskin. I can only hope you expend half as much energy on taking care of your animals as you do attacking her and Big Cat Rescue.
Patricia, there are several things that puncture your theory that Carole has evolved. The most important is that she does not differentiate between responsible and irresponsible owners. She wants them all to not be owners, as is evidence on her website.
I hold her responsible for every word that she keeps on her site.
Unfortunately it will be years before you figure out what she is doing to you, how she is using you, Patricia. How far down do you want to let her take you before you let go?
I believe that the person who used the name “Carole Baskin” was either her, someone who works for her, or someone who she put up to it. The thing is, it’s really hard to fake that exact kind of lame attempt at sarcasm.
Response to Patricia:
I can honestly say “YOU don’t know what YOU are talking about”!
We DO spend time with our animals and take good care of them however, we would have MUCH more time to spend with them if we did not have to keep on top of trying to protect them from those such as Carole Baskin who are trying very hard to take them away from us.
Unlike what Carole preaches, many owners DO NOT disgard their cats, nor would they ever plan to regardless of any ‘unpleasant’ behavior the animal may start to exhibit. Many do not breed or sell them and most have a plan established in the unfortunate event the owner can no longer care for their animal(s) i.e.; a fellow experienced licensed animal person who has agreed to care for the animal if/when the need should occur.
Please explain to me why you and Carole feel that ALL owners should NOT be allowed to have them in the safe privacy of their own home?
WE can only hope YOU, Carole and many other groups would spend YOUR time concerned with bad owners and leave the majority of us, who are totally responsible with no violations and spend our OWN money caring for the animals we dedicate our lives to.
Why do you keep attacking US and trying to take away our animals? Many will end up DEAD (euthanized) if total bans are passed. Is that what you would prefer? Would you rather see all these felines, many who are endangered, end up in a dumpster, cremated, stuffed for museums or rendered into dog and cat food instead of living a safe happy long life with those that love them?
poor patricia, another brainwashed zombie! i would go to a doctor as the what comes out of your mouth is certainly tainted. it must be the cat pee. it is like niagra falls, you can hear it before you see it. at carole’s place, you can SMELL it before you see it!
Patricia said, “As far as Carole Baskin’s past actions, don’t we all have things in our past that we wouldn’t do if we knew then what we know now? Please take at look at “History and Evolution” which describes how and why Ms. Baskin’s thinking has changed over the years…”
Patricia, what you may not know is that Carole’s ‘Evolution of Thought’ (as she originally called this piece) appeared only after her fraud was exposed by Bay News 9. This was necessary to explain away why Carole stated that cats were ‘born into the pet trade’ when they were actually bred and born at BCR. The website was copied before these changes were made as proof of the changes, and these CMA (cover my ass ) changes continue, some even posted today after reading some of these comments.
When the Bay News 9 expose’ aired Carole rushed to change her web site in an attempt to cover up her guilt. Where her home page used to state that she was a ‘home for abused and abandoned cats” It next stated only that she was a ‘retirement home” for cats. What happened to the abused and abandoned cats? Could it be that they never existed?
Where her web site stated that a cat was ‘born into the pet trade’ Carole rushed to add her “Evolution of Thought’ explaining that she used to be the pet trade, before her thoughts ‘evolved.’ A large number of the cats listed on her website as ‘rescues’ were actually bought for her stated desire to own and commercially exhibit the largest collection of exotic cats in the world. Nowhere does she admit this of course but she finally did admit that “a small fraction” (about one quarter) of her cats were actually bred and born there. One has to wonder why Carole doesn’t simply say that these cats were bred and born at Big Cat Rescue instead of counting on people to click on a link for her new ‘explanation’. My guess is that she would then look like she was trying to hide this fact….which she was….and is.
Many cats were purchased at exotic animal auctions where Carole originally claimed she ‘paid their ransom’ to ‘rescue’ them. Her post expose’ version of this story is that she bought them from auctions because she saw owners bottle feeding them curdled milk (this would ‘explain’ why most purchased were just babies) or because she saw taxidermists clubbing them to death in the parking lot (in front of Carole mind you) before taking them home to mount them.
This is Carole’s most ridiculous cover-up to date. Talk to a taxidermist. You don’t mount a cat that has had it’s face and fur destroyed by a club, and milk always looks curdled when you add the baby cereal. Look for this story and others to change now, if they haven’t already; or at least get a new ‘explanation.’ The truth is, these cats were bought to be re-sold for a profit, bred, or kept by Carole for her collection, and the paperwork supports this.
Still other cats said to have been ‘rescued from fur farms’ were cubs bought to be sold as pets or breeders. If they were ‘rescued’, where are they now? For the first time (since the expose’) Carole’s web site now admits that these animals were indeed bought with the intention of selling them. They were not ‘rescues’ as she claimed for so many years. If she truly wanted to ‘rescue’ cats from fur farms she would have taken home older cats ready to be harvested (killed) for their fur; not 56 little cubs that could be bottle raised, imprinted on humans, and sold as pets. If I remember correctly, after reading this statement Carole then added to her story, claiming that they later rescued the adult cats too. It is hard to keep up with her lies as she has to keep posting new ones to cover up the old.
As late as 2004 a volunteer at BCR tells us he visited Carole at her home and saw that she had a Jungle Cat as a housepet, yet Carole wants to forbid this for everyone but herself. Whether or not you support the responsible ownership of exotics, I would hope that you would not support the lies, deceit, and fraud this woman has been for years perpetrated on the naive animal lovers who financially support her.
Since being publicly exposed, Carole’s web site has under gone some drastic changes. This is why the original version of the website was copied before the expose’….. to reveal Carole’s feeble attempts to cover her a## , which to us is just more evidence of her guilt.
When investigative reporter Chris Hawes asked to copy Carole’s paperwork, her request was denied. Carole said her opponents could ‘zero in on’ parts that could be used against her. If Carole had nothing to hide, that is exactly what could be used against her….nothing.
Remember, Bay News 9 attorneys went over hundreds of documents before allowing this piece to air. Chris Hawes was offered a ‘dream job’ in Texas, in part for the investigative work she did on this story. Carole is married to an attorney, yet no attempt was ever made to sue for what Carole refers to as slander. Ask yourself why.
I don’t think that the expose went far enough, either.
Carole is a private owner who wants the business to herself.
There is also the problem of the blood on Carole Baskin’s hands. If she had been genuinely concerned about what happened to the animals she would have taken meticulous care that no animals had to die because of losing their homes. Instead she seems to have taken meticulous care to maximize the number of animal deaths.
Patricia I feel sorry for you. You have been brainwshed like so many other volunteers at Big Cat Rescue. Read what others have said above and see the truth. Carole and the other zombies are liars. They lie to this day about the stories of some of the cats they so called rescued to get the public to give donations. That is called fraudulent fundraising activities which you may be involved with yourself. There are so many lies it would take to long to go through them.
I believe those comments came from Carole. I’d like to remind Carole she needs to take precaution because she has 142 cats or whatever she says she has today who can kill or maim (as she says). I do not believe Carole loves any of her animals I believe they have always been a way to bring her fame and fortune. Also, how dare she sit there and make general statements about how other private owners and she is one and sanctuaries don’t care about there animals and are whining about the $10,000 bond because they don’t want to take responsibility. The truth is Carole is a millionaire and this new law has no effect on her. But some private owners and sanctuaries who take better care and really love their animals may have trouble paying the bond because they are not rich. Some private owners and sanctuaries use their own money unlike Ms Carole Lewis Baskin who has donate several times on almost every page of her website which is sickening. I’ve never seen a website like that.
The saddest thing about this new law is that there will be private owners and/or sanctuaries like Carole planned that may have to give up the animals they love or euthanize them because they can’t afford the $10,000 bond. If this happens the blood will be on your hands Carole and the legislators who pushed this amendment through.
I agree with Zuzana to kill bills and the reasons she stated. I also believe for every bill like this passed Americans are losing their freedom. I believe I have a right to own an exotic animal as long as I take care of it properly and it is not a threat to the neighbors. But unless everyone bans together we will lose one freedom after another till you won’t even be able to own a domestic cat or dog. That is exactly where the AR groups are going with all this. If there’s a group in Florida I’ll join it.
Let’s put it this way, Marv. If we band together we can save and protect our rights and regain what we have lost.
People do NOT have the right to keep what they want. Infact no one has the right to put their neighbors in danger from an escaped cobra ,etc .
These bills/laws are weak EVERY venemous reptile/invert should be banned-big constrictors-big lizards and most exotic mammals who can transmit diseases or wound/kill if escape .
Its unreal that anyone with a family would even consider such “pets” . Goes to show how much they “love” their kids and respect their neighbors .
Comment from Mary
Date: August 2, 2007, 1:17 am
I agree with Zuzana to kill bills and the reasons she stated. I also believe for every bill like this passed Americans are losing their freedom. I believe I have a right to own an exotic animal as long as I take care of it properly and it is not a threat to the neighbors. But unless everyone bans together we will lose one freedom after another till you won’t even be able to own a domestic cat or dog. That is exactly where the AR groups are going with all this. If there’s a group in Florida I’ll join it.
I agree HOWEVER tigers-Venemous reptiles ,primates,etc are a BIG danger to your neighbors . If the animals isnt a danger than by all means have it.
Its none of my business if my neighbor has what she wants just dont keep anything that if it escapes puts anyone in danger. So I agree with you but thats not what she wants she wants ALL animals allowed by the sound of it.
AR is a radical group with a distorted PETA like agenda but on the other hand keeping what you want is absurd.
Lia writes, “I agree HOWEVER tigers-Venemous reptiles ,primates,etc are a BIG danger to your neighbors . If the animals isnt a danger than by all means have it.”
Lia, how is reptile, cat or primate kept by a trained, licensed, reponsible owner in a safe FWC approved cage or enclosure any more dangerous to a neighbor than the neighbor’s dog is to them? Look at the statistics. For instance….
17-20 people a year (mostly children) die from dog bites.
0 people a year die from an encounter with a primate.
When someone is injured by an exotic it is always the owner or handler or someone who has made the choice to GO TO the facility where the animal is housed. If you are fearful of exotic animals it is very simple….do not go to where they are housed and you will not be hurt. There has NEVER been a case of an ESCAPED exotic killing someone.
If you love animals, please educate yourself to the facts before you make fearful statements like those of the animal rights people. This site has lots of TRUTHFUL information and statistics…..http://www.rexano.org/
Remember, dogs… even horses….cause more injuries than exotics. Support a ban on our freedom to own a big cat or primate and eventually you will be fighting to keep the animal of YOUR choice.
Lia, you have to prove statements like that if you want people to believe them. When only one to two people die each year from all exotic animals combined, then there is no grave danger to anyone from keeping them.
Horses are just about as dangerous, killing about 209 people each year in the U.S. Please, let’s confront this issue. Even if animal rights advocates intended to be fair in this, it would still be wrong to ban people from keeping horses or tigers. Our freedoms are worth a lot of risk. This kind of thing teaches that our freedoms are worth taking no risks for.
I think that “Not Carole Baskin” really was Carole Baskin.
Wow. The people I know who own tigers are so in love with them, take exceptional care of them, and are ALWAYS watching out for their best interests. They are very protective of them and all people.
Carole needs to MYOB, and let Americans keep their freedom.
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If you want to know the real story about Carole Murdock Stairs Lewis Baskin, examine her real estate dealings with a fine tooth comb -I have…
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