Rudy Giuliani vs. Ron Paul on 9/11.
If you put up a Ron Paul video, you hear both sides, you read both sides–there seems to be no middle ground on Dr. Paul. No comments or emails are ever received which say “Oh, I don’t know how I feel about Ron Paul”.
So, putting up any video invites attacks, even though most posters are passionate, yet perfectly civil. We thought this video would be a good illustration of the “No Middle Ground About Ron Paul” Theory. It’s the famous exchange between Paul and Rudy Giuliani at the South Carolina debate earlier this year.
We’ve seen parts of it before, but never the 4 minute clip without editing. It’s the entire exchange: most anti-Paul videos cut away at Giuliani’s applause. The pro-Paul videos we’ve seen only show Ron Paul’s answer to Rudy.
In 4:34, this is the entire back-and-forth between the two men. Your position on the issues will naturally affect who you think came out on top here.
You be the judge.
See the video:
Sources:
Mondoreb blogs at Death By 1000 Papercuts. Interested readers can e-mail him at
mondoreb@gmail.com.
14 users commented in " Rudi Giuliani vs. Ron Paul: The Entire Exchange "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackI’m a Paul supporter, but I think Giuliani came out on top. Not because Giuliani was right but he sounded like he was right because one has to examine Paul’s words closely to see what he means. This is an ongoing problem with Paul in debates. He needs to be more clear and explanatory. Paul’s campaign needs to hire someone to coach him and prepare him for the debates. I think this is crucial for Paul to go to the next level.
Exactly,
Look at Hillary, she hardly ever answers a question directly. She will spin it in many directions and give what “sounds” like a good answer.
I think Ron Paul won the argument clearly. Just because Rudy plays his trump card 9/11 and there is so much emotion tied to it that any rational statement that goes up against it would pale in comparison.
Example:
Ron Paul – “we need to bring our troops home immediately” — cheers
Rudy – “9/11” — cheers, roars, panties being thrown at him, confetti falling from the sky etc…
This is what’s wrong with America.
-Apathy
I agree with Darren, I saw this when it originally aired, this is actually the moment that made me a Ron Paul supporter. After seeing the childishly response from Giuliani I felt the need to look into Ron Paul more deeply and loved what I found. If more people reacted like I did, it explain current trends of Ron Pauls growing support.
But from the visual, from the crowd pop and flow of the debate Giuliani won on the short term, although overtime I think that exchange has been a huge source of fuel for Ron Pauls support. So I think Ron Paul in the long run benefited most from it.
I think if Giuliani did not respond he wouldn’t of given that soundbite for independants like me to rally against him for and would of really diminished ROn Pauls growth long term.
So by that argument, Ron Paul wins.
All credit for putting the whole thing up unedited. Nonetheless it proves what we’ve known all along (I saw it live), which is that Guliani is an idiot running on one thing–9/11–and that he didn’t even take the time to read a report that he himself was featured in! If that’s not hurbis, I don;t know what is. It also showed that Dr. Paul was correct and has a firm grip ont eh real probelms facing this nation in terms of foreign policy, and not the excuses and lies we keep hearing about “hating us for our freedoms” and “Islamo-fascism”. It is about our actions, it is about ignoring the Golden Rule, and it is about blowback and a history of bad policy that will take years to undo.
Ron Paul reads the 911 report, and actually listened to what Paul Wolfewitz said.
Ron Paul is not stating opinion, but facts.
The documentation for Ron Paul’s position in a matter of public record.
It’s not just a question of who won, but a question of Rudy’s competence. If he cannot read a report, how smart a president will he be?
A: As smart as the one we got now.
Ron Paul didn’t blame America for 9/11; he laid out the motive for 9/11 and it was a radical Saudi muslim motive.
Let’s say John cheats his business partner Mike and Mike kills John. Then during the trial, the prosecutor says “The reason Mike killed John was due to the fact that John cheated Mike in their business dealings.”
No one on the jury thinks “Oh that mean prosecutor, he’s blaming the victim.” NO! The jury thinks “Oh! that certainly shows that Mike had a motive, maybe Mike killed John after all.”
The same is true here. Ron Paul is laying out the motive. And please note it is a Saudi motive, a radical Isamic motive. By doing so, Ron Paul is laying the blame squarely at Bin Laden’s feet.
What’s really strange to me, is that Rudy says he never heard such a thing — Why Dr. Paul is blaming the victim! As a former prosecutor, Rudy Giuliani should be very familiar with the concept of motive. It shows that Rudy is playing games. You can even see his little half-assed smile as he is delivering his line.
Later.
It’s interesting to read a “Ron Paul supporter” claim that Rudy won this and that Ron Paul was not clear and articulate. Ron Paul has had a rowsing success as a RESULT of being clear like this and NOT getting coached. Hello! Just how do you explain that he has been GROWING in supporters by thousands every single day, regardless of a near media blackout, exclusions, etc..? And you criticize his methods? Huh?
In other words: You want him to change from the strategy that is being so successful for him to a strategy all the others are using that are slowly eroding away their support?
I won’t be a jerk here and accuse you of really not being a supporter, but you really need to look at what you are saying. Because people reacted with a knee jerk in the audience, you think Ron Paul lost? Nobody is going to win 100% of the vote, even if it was Jesus himself. Dr. Paul definitely does NOT need to pander to these bafoons.
Finally, I would like to point out something about the Iowa straw poll. There were numerous eye-witness reports that people had mostly voted BEFORE they heard Ron Paul, and regretted voting for others AFTER hearing Ron Paul. He simply wasn’t known well enough when they voted. Hundreds of those people are now in the meetup groups in Iowa.
As much as I would like 100% of the people to support Ron Paul, it isn’t going to happen. And those candidates that are trying for that strategy are eroding…
I say Ron Paul keeps doing what he is doing. Even if I cringe at times at how he comes across. Looks like he knows what he is doing.
What irritates me so much about this exchange is that Giuliani accused Ron Paul of “blaming America” for the attacks.
American citizens are entirely innocent. What Giuliani did was purposely confuse American foreign policy with what your average American wants and supports.
Do you think Americans support overthrowing Democracies? That’s what the CIA did in 1953 in Iran, and every Iranian knows it and the CIA report is declassified. http://cryptome.org/cia-iran-all.htm
Do you think Americans support having US bases on top of Iraqi oil fields? That’s where all US bases are: http://memosphere.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/iraq_oil_bases.jpg
Do you think Americans support keeping ruthless corrupt dictators in charge in various countries? That’s what happened in Iran until the Shah was overthrown, in Iraq until Hussein stopped following orders, and is currently happening in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
We have an obviously terrible foreign policy. If China was keeping a ruthless murderous government in power in the United States against the wishes of the American people that lived there, what would Americans finally resort to? Maybe… terrorism?
It’s pretty hard for anybody to explain just exactly what blowback is in 30 seconds, and Guiliani knows FULL WELL what is going on – he’s not stupid. Giuliani does his best to keep your average citizen from understanding just what our government is doing in the Middle East by resoring to jingoism and other countries because it has terrible consequences not for our government, but for you and me.
Halliburton is RICH from this war in Iraq, Blackwater has been raking in money hand over fist, and what has it cost? Just a few thousand US servicemen’s lives, a 1/2 trillion dollars from tax payers, and who knows how many lives of Iraqis. If the US starts adopting a sane foreign policy, the US will no longer have an excuse to take tax money and give it away to their corrupt friends and buddies. That’s really how it is.
Darren, Alex Merced, Democrat Leaning,Tannim, Paulie, Kevin, Scott McDonnell:
It’s all about free interchange of ideas.
It was a pleasure to read well-reasoned comments that were thought through. Thanks a lot. I defend the Ron Paul supporters by say, “There’s a few bad apples in every barrel.” Most Paul supporters are passionate but well-mannered ordinary folks.
I’m an Independent, with a strong Libertarian streak.
Although I don’t agree with all the points Paul makes, I agree with more than I disagree. Comments like these are what makes us put up more Ron Paul stories and videos.
Thanks!
Rudy loves to cross-dress! The man dresses up like a women. You can see it on youtube. Seriously. Look it up. Mr. 911 in a dress and ‘hose. Bizarro! Conversely, Ron Paul has been married to the same woman his entire adult life and doesn’t where dresses that I know of. I realize that’s a fairly boring lifestyle by modern standards, but some folks really go for normal love and marraige.
As for the real issues, Dr. P kicks Rudy message into the stone age, if you like actual conservatism (which I understand is what the GOP is supposed to be about, though it’s hard to tell these days). Rudy would probably have had all the founding fathers arresting using the Patriot Act, but I’m sure his wisdom is sound.
But anyway, most people like sensationalism, so check out the Rudy In Drag footage on YouTube, it’s quite sickening. Therefore people will probably vote for him! Go America!
OVER THERE means in the holy land of the muslims. Quote ” They attack us because we are over there” When Paul added we have been bombing Iraq it was not the only reason it was in addition to being over there. The hijackers were from Saudi, and the over there reference was refering to Saudi.
Attempting to re hash this is stupid. Ron Paul was clearly correct.
I find it hilarious that Giuliani was actually ON the 911 commission until they kicked him off for not participating. Turns out he was too busy collecting hefty speaking fees cashing in on his 911 windfall. And the guy didn’t even bother to read the report when it came out, and so much as admitted it during the debate, “I don’t think I’ve ever heard that before, and I’ve heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11th.” AND he’s too stupid to even be embarrassed by it. Yeah, we need Julie as president desperately, all righty. Anyone that that even considers voting for him is delusional.
Please notice: Pat Robertson, who said something equivalent to: “America was attacked because we deserved it”, has endorsed Rudy. Ron Paul did not say America deserved to be attacked. It would seem that Rudy HAS heard something like what he was falsely claiming Ron Paul had said. He just didn’t remember ?? Isn’t it strange that Rudy has no problem with Pat Robertson’s endorsement. Does Rudy have a problem with his memory and his hearing? I do not think Rudy is presidential. I think Ron Paul would be the best president since our founding fathers. His views are spot on for our present predicament. Truth remains truth, even this many years later.
I’m afraid of Giuliani becuase he uses emotional PR techniques and one liners to rally the crowd. Ron Paul is honest and intelligent and advocates freedom. Considering the rough times ahead for the world(peak oil, global warming, bankruptcy, etc…), I would rather experience these events with local governments choosing their own fate rather than a one size fits all bankrupt bureaucratic gun-boat federal nanny.
Austin, Texas
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