REXANO www.REXANO.org Editorial By Zuzana Kukol
There are probably not many animal lovers who haven’t read the article or seen the latest YouTube sensation “Christian the Lion†. It tells the heartwarming story of a pet lion bought in 1969 and raised in the apartment by two Australians living in London. It is not a surprise that pretty soon the lion was outgrowing the apartment and new arrangements needed to be made.
That is when the Australians met actors Bill Travers and Virginia McKenna who had just finished filming the movie “Born Free†about a real lioness Elsa, who was reintroduced to the wild. The actors personally knew and portrayed George and Joy Adamson, the real people behind the movie, who raised and released their lioness Elsa back into wild.
The Australians contacted George Adamson and ended up taking their lion, Christian, to Kenya where he was released into the wild. (As a responsible exotic animal owner, I have to say that getting a lion and raising it in an apartment is a very irresponsible act. Anybody who wishes to privately own big exotic cats needs to have proper caging set up before getting the animals, as they grow very fast.)
The hit Christian the Lion video takes place in 1972 when the Australians, Anthony “Ace†Bourke and John Rendall, returned to Africa to reunite with their pet lion. The lion, which is supposed to be a killer in many people’s minds, not only remembered his former family, but gave the two guys many big hugs. It is this strong loving emotional bond between a human and the ‘beast’ that captivated the attention of many million viewers and brought them to tears. 
Author with her own pet lion ‘Bam Bam’, bred and born in the USA (Photo Scott Shoemaker)
Until now the public had no clue captive born and raised exotic cats are capable of love and a bond this strong. This is something we, the pet exotic animal owners, know and experience everyday. Until now nobody believed us. 
Happy pet lion licking the hand that feeds him (Photo Scott Shoemaker)
What many do not know is that the son of the actor Bill Travers is Will Travers, CEO of Born Free USA which united with the Animal Protection Institute (API), an extreme animal rights (AR) group that actively pushes for bans on exotic animals in captivity.
- The group that often uses questionable methods to accomplish their goal
- The group that would rather see these animals extinct than saved in captivity
- The group that is now selling the DVD in the UK and making money off of the very sweet bond between a human and lion that made this footage famous, the very bond this group wants to eliminate by pushing for exotic animal bans and for closing the zoos.
On the group’s website Will Traves, CEO, says “This lion used to live in my garden†and “My late dad (Bill) filmed this great adventureâ€.
Another page of the API/Born Free propaganda ridden website claims: “…lions, tigers, cougars, wolves, bears, monkeys, alligators, and venomous snakes and other reptiles — pose grave dangers to human health and safety. By their very nature, exotic animals are unpredictable and are incapable of being domesticated or tamed. and “States must act now to pass laws that ensure that the private ownership of exotic animals is prohibitedâ€.
Yet, their own, API/Born Free, CEO Will Travis lived with a lion in his garden, his family and friends were filming movies with captive and wild lions, and nobody was killed or even lost a limb to a big cat.
What better proof does the public need to see the hypocrisy of the animal rights movement that wants to ban the exotic animal ownership under the guise of public safety, even though the numbers do not add up? On average, one person dies in the USA every year as a result of a captive big cat attack. The majority of the fatalities are the owners/handlers themselves, aka, an occupational hazard.
The public needs to wake up and realize the dangers of the extreme animal rights movement, whose final agenda is no animals in captivity for any reason, be it pet or food.Â
Copyright © REXANO 2008
46 users commented in " Christian the Lion and the Hypocrisy of the Extreme Animal Rights Movement "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackI am in strong support of people breeding, raising, and keeping exotic animals as pets or other entertainment purposes! Though the clip from Christian the Lion running to hug his humans was touching, it’s nothing compared to seeing his parents circling around a small cage in the London zoo at the end of the film and realizing that their entire lives are spent at within the confines of a few square feet. Where’s the compassion and humanity in that? Exotic animals in captivity is cruel!Isn’t the whole issue here about Christian the Lion was that despite being breeded in captivity, he and all other exotic animals like him should always be BORN FREE and be allowed to exist as such without the confinements of human intervention?
Oops, corrections. (It was hard to see what I was typing.)
I am in strong support of people NOT breeding, raising, and keeping exotic animals as pets or for other entertainment purposes! Though the clip from Christian the Lion running to hug his humans was touching, it’s nothing compared to seeing his parents circling around a small cage in the London zoo at the end of the film and realizing that their entire lives were spent within the confines of just a few square feet.
Where’s the compassion and humanity in that? No matter how you look at it, exotic animals in captivity is cruel! And isn’t the whole issue here about the story of Christian the Lion was that despite being bred in captivity, he and all other exotic animals like him should always be BORN FREE and deserved to be allowed to exist as such without the confinements of human intervention?
It is ridiculous and insanely cruel to purchase an exotic animal for a “pet” or keep confined in unnatural environment. Why do these people continue to imprison animals for their “entertainment” and vain reasons. Leave the animals alone – Sanctuaries are overflowing with discarded exotic animals human beings brought into mankind’s cruel environment. Only for sanctuary, should the victims of unthinking “owners” be confined. They should be free, not imprisoned.
I too am against the use of animals for entertainment purposes etc. But this was 1969 people! Not a lot of awareness back then in terms of the cruelty of it all. Give them a break, it is a touching story because in the end, they did the right thing, he ended up where he should have been in the first place. Had they not “rescued” him from Harrods that day, he would have ended up in a zoo or performing with Siegried and friggin Roy.
You people sure have negative attitudes towards humanity. You’re not part of the solution. You’re part of the problem.
Those who tend to spout crap like… “Exotic animals should not be privately owned… and it is cruel to the animal….” are generally people who have NEVER had contact with an exotic cat!! People who jump on an AR bandwagon, before fully doing their homework.
As a VERY smart woman once said… “Stupid should be banned… not exotic pet ownership.”
I just love it when someone who HAS NO IDEA of what they are spouting off about, think that they have a valid opinion on the subject!!!
I have 4 exotic cats… they purr all the time.. search me out in the day and night to cuddle with me… They LOVE me and my family!! So Please… I’m a beggin’ ya… quit posting stupid remarks like you know something about “wild” cats, and that YOU think you know what is best for them.
Get educated. And not just by reading AR propaganda. Try volunteering at a local small shelter, or a REAL sanctuary. Not some money hungry place like BCR or the likes thereof.
After you do that… then come back and post a comment!! Geesh!! The big “sanctuaries” that are doing the “high and mighty” complaining about being “over-crowded”, are doing this so they can get MORE MONEY!!! Don’t fool yourselves.
Let me clarify: I meant Gogirl, Keley, and Puck.
When I have encountered pet big cats, they have often made a point of telling me how much they enjoyed life, as if they knew that I needed to know that.
To those of you who say that exotic pets are unhappy and living in an unnatural environment I have two things to say.
1) A home environment is “unnatural” for ANY animal as animals live outdoors. Yet dogs, cats, etc live very happy lives with their owners. Same goes for exotics.
2) For those of you who say “send them back to the wild,” “Stop breeding them in captivity because its cruel and they belong in the wild,” I can show you a few articles where the “wild” is not so great because of habitat loss, poaching for food and/or killing because they are a nuisance to people and crops. Many cities in South America where farming is a big industry are encouraged to kill certain primates because they rummage their crops. In a city I believe in India the government wants to move/euthanize THOUSANDS of macaques because they have inhabited the city and are constantly breaking into peoples home to take food, etc. As for the big cats their habitats are not being preserved so they have no land, and when they approach livestock of locals they are killed because they are going to harm the farm animals, or local inhabitants. Heck here in our own US the government wanted to euthanize wild horses because they were eating from the crops of people who owned the land, and other farmers. Not even in OUR OWN country are wild horses safe. All of this due to us humans encroaching on their land and expecting them to find some other place to live. We have left the “wild” with no option but to come into our backyards in search of food and a means to survive, yet kill them when they try.
Yet keeping these animals as pets in loving homes is bad?!?!?!
For many animals captive breeding is their only chance for survival. There are good and bad owners in every spectrum. The focus should be on punishing bad owners who abuse their animals, and applauding good caring owners for providing homes to these animals. Emphasis should also be placed on conservation of habitats and stricter laws in their countries. This however is difficult because where most of countries where these animals occur in the wild are third world countries. One day the only place we will see them is in a captive environment like what has happened to many dogs.
You know, when we try to preserve habitat for the animals, it is always in places that are being overrun with more and more humans and we can’t build effective physical barriers hundreds of miles long to separate humans from animals. Thus the animals that people are forbidden to domesticate become nuisance animals that kill humans a lot more often than do domesticated animals of the same species.
The idea that most exotics are miserable in captivity is an outright lie. The idea of an unwanted tiger is an outright lie, too, and so is the idea that a tiger must be genetically pure. I have to call certain parties on this.
Because of the sick propaganda (more like sewage sludge) being put out by the animal rights folks, very few people are aware of just heppy and well-adjusted a properly cared-for captive lion (or nearly any other big cat) can be. Ideas like ‘the wild’ ‘captivity’ and ‘home environment’ are constructs created by human beings, that animals have no concept of. Instead, most animals, and especially big cats can readily adapt to any reasonable environment they are put in. This is why they are sucessful as preadtors. Their prey base, hunting conditions, etc often change constantly, and they have to instantly adjust to these changes. I have seen a situation where a big cat was being kept in what looked like way too small an enclosure. But it turns out that this is what that cat wanted, and she was happy there. She turned down a huge outdoor enclosure for a small indoor enclosure. And what did she get in return? Constant companionship, love and attention. These kinds of things are far more important to most animals than expansive (and expensive!), naturalistic enclosures.
Keep in mind also that this is a film based on a true story. If you watch the reunion scene, you can see how this scene was ‘blocked’ for production by the director. I am sure the real event (which undoubtedly was not filmed) went very similarly because this is how lions really are. As far as the parents circling in a cage at the end of the film, this, too was staged. I bet Christian’s parents were happy and well-adjusted where they were at.
So before you talk about how badly captive animals have it, go visit a well-run facility and see how much love the cats get– and give back. It will be a real eye-opener.
timbalionguy:
What are u talking about. This was the actual footage. There’s a documenatry about Christian . Nothing about this is fake. The documentary is called Christian the Lion Who Thought He Was People.
Pet ownership is a compassionate way to preserve many species from extinction.
Christian was bought as an impulse purchase. Still it was born of compassion and love.
I wonder why the zoo where he was born chose to sell him to a department store rather than another zoo that would have been far more capable of caring for his needs.
Christian was extremely lucky to have met these 2 young men. His fate may have been much different otherwise.
To me the idea of owning another animal is repugnant. I do share my home with cats and dogs but their lives are their own. I gratefully accept the resonsibility of caring for their needs as best I can.
The issue is not whether or not a wild animal can show affection to humans. The issue is whether or not human are capable of meeting the needs of these animals.
Animal shelters are of full of animals who were not burn cruel or “disobedient” but who were unfortunate enough to live with people who didnt understand or were incapable of meeting their needs. People who didnt understand enough about creating a stable relationship with a creature of a different species than their own.
Sadly this happens with exotic animals as well. The other side is that many many wild animals die or are treated badly by those who capture them with purposes of selling them to those who wish to “own” an exotic animal.
If you truly wish to have a loving relationship with a creature of a different species there are many cats and dogs already being sold like chunks of meat. Choose adoption instead.
The cats of Born Free were adopted. Again out of compassion. If you find an exotic animal that truly needs you and you are sure you can meet their needs then and only then is it right.
Zoologists at Oxford pointed out years ago that large carnivores should not be kept in enclosures.
Though the study had to do with animals kept in zoos, the issue is not about “connecting with humans” or any such issue.
Quite simply, large carnivores need to roam and without that ability they suffer from poorer health, breeding problems and, of course, pacing.
While humans have the choice to decide whether they want security over freedom, I question whether you have the right to make that choice for the animals you keep.
Ace and John knew the right thing to do. They returned Christian to the wild.
They did this also out of love, compassion and respect for the beautiful animal he was.
Wait a minute didn’t they release him into wild in the end because they realised that was best for him. Maybe you think that was a poor example on your part since you are arguing FOR keeping wild animals in captivity, don’t you think at the end of the day it makes you all look like the hypocrites.
They lived in the apartment, NOT a good place for a soon to be full grown lion.
In the absence of any other option (such as nice big captive habitat in the Scottish country side), the only option available to them at the time was send him to the wilds of Africa. To be honest, as a responsible animal owner, both, exotic and domestic, I can not imagine let my lion or dog go FREE after they have been accustomed to human bond, love and abundance of food and care in captivity. It seems almost cruel to kick them out and force them to fend for themselves after we the humans accustomed them to being taken care of. I think if we have animals bred and born in captivity and accustomed to being taken care of, we owe it to them to spoil them rotten for the rest of their lives
People that think that private exotic animal ownership is ridiculous, well YOU are ridiculous! I do NOT have cats, but I DO have monkeys and I am proud to say that I am ‘owned’ by two wonderful black cap capuchin monkeys! I hope to one day have an exotic cat! But to be totally honest with you idiot AR people, this is really none of your all’s busniess…I will ALWAYS have exotics and there is nothing that you can or will do about that! Also something else…Z is a wonderful person with a heart of gold for her exotic cats, and she takes better care of them than I am sure any of you take care of your domestic animals! So please when you want to talk negative about someone please make sure that you have the grounds to do so, or you ALL may get slapped with a slanderous law suit! I really think that we all as exotic animal owners need to take a stand and start REALLY fighting back with these idiot AR people..They need to see what we do before they continue to run their mouths, and that is ALL that they do! They have nothing else better to do, and that is why they always hide behind emails, T.V. ad’s, and God only knows what else they do…They are ALL full of nothing but B.S. and tune a deaf ear to it! They are not intelligent as they think that they are….They only want what we have…The love and compassion and the trust that we have been given by our “EXOTIC ANIMALS”…Now in conclusion, I am Owned by TWO(2)black cap capuchin monkeys, and that will NEVER change..”Z” you will always have a supporter here! Take care girl! Please do NOT take what they idiots say to heart, they sure are NOT worth your time nor your energy…like I said, Turn a deaf ear to them, and go hug your “Kitties”….Take care!
Capuchin-monkey-mom
Flip flopper, are you planning on running for President?
First your like oh look at the love between lion and man and the story of Christian the lion is so sweet blah blah Then you call them hypocrites blah blah then you say its good that hey got them out of the aprtment blah blah then you say shame on them for releasing this animal into the wild blah blah good grief you are a confused person. I guess you would have prefered if they gave the lion to you. Your just hurting your cause tripping all over yourself like this. Sorry this editorial is not very convincing at all.
Also something else I wanted to say was this……”Z” you wrote something about animals being born in captivity and only knowing our love and abundance of food!! Well I wanted to let you know that you could not have said it to be more true! WE do owe our captive bred exotic animals the upmost love, compassion and respect, I sure couldn’t imagine it any other way! Couldn’t agree with you more!
Capuchin-monkey-mom ;o)
Look here “flip” person….BACK OFF! You need not open your mouth anymore! Maybe if you read ALL the posts then you may be able to understand what she was writing. She was saying that SHE would have NEVER gotten a lion if she was living in an apartment…..Now can you figure out the rest of it or does it need to be explained to you also?
Did you have to go crying to minions for help Z???
Aww i thought I had free speech but I guess if i’m not an exotic pet owner I don’t have the same rights.
Capuchin mom since you know so much I’m not only considerig this posts but all of the posts and comments made all over the web by her. First REXANO was touting this story as a means to shut the “AR NUTS” up because it showed how wild animals and people can share a bond. Which I completely agree with. But now she is blasting them and called them hypocrites because it suits her.
FLIP FLOPPER!!
Now do you understand that or do I need to explain that to YOU.
I just think you guys deserve a better spokesperson and besides don’t you have to go change your monekys diaper.
Actually no I just got done changing their diapers and gave them their bottles and they are in their bedroom in their beds…They have bedtimes just as my human children. I guess that is really none of your business, now is it. I was just wanting to clear something up for you, is all that I was wanting to do. But as you seem to be just an arguementative person there is no need to try to reason with you. People like you are NOT worth arguing with nor wasting my time to try to discuss something with. I am not in the mood to argue with you, so please just know that I wanted to make sure that you read everything and it sounds like you did, and their is no need for me to try to explain it to you because it seems that “you” know it all already. So please just try to see our point of veiws before you pass judgement on us. Thanks for your time…
C. Monkey…. Don’t waste your breath on that IDIOT. That person is here from some stupid pre-teen AR group to stir up trouble. Its obvious. He/she will get tired of making stupid childish remarks and get bored sooner than later and go back to playing hide and go seek, or tag, or tether ball with his/her little buddies.
I have to say it again,… I just LOVE IT when stupid people that know NOTHING about what they are commenting on THINK that their opinion is a valid one. Or that it even counts in the grand scheme of things.
Z… You rock girl!!! You do what you do so well. The idiot that is posting negative things is obviously jealous of you and is hoping to get out of the 6th grade this year. And oh yeah…if you need to call in the calvery… you know I’ve got your back!!! At least YOU, Z, have friends…. much unlike the person who posts under the name of “Make up your Mind”.
Love ya.
Now that makes sense as to why this idiot doesn’t have any intelligent things to say…Now I totally understand. They are a little kid! Well I shouldn’t say that…My kids are pretty smart for their ages, and I think that they could come back with something more intelligent than that idiot did. Thanks again for letting me know. I really was just getting pissed that they were talking so negatively about Z..As you said,”if you need to call in the calvery… you know I’ve got your back!!! At least YOU, Z, have friends…. much unlike the person who posts under the name of “Make up your Mind”.”….I personally agree with you. We can make this very difficult for this idiot if need be. We all here are your friends Z, and WE all have your back…And I will be there with my MONKEYS! :o)
Capuchin-Monkey-Mom
um really?
D. Cutrell, you thought that was me?
Really?
I barely acknowledged the ramblings of Zuz. You think I would deal with the illiterate Monkey Mom? Why not slam my head against a wall?
None of you offer a cogent, reasoned argument. You just ramble on as if you are victims. Yeah, real victimized…
Whatever.
You make me laugh!! HAAAA HAAAAA!! I’m NOT your victim!! LOL!! But YOU are MY joke.
Illiterate Monkey Mom? Really? So tell me..Will…. just what is a cogent argument? hmmm?
You should stop slamming your head against the wall..
Okay answer what Jim said.
That seemed like a reasonable thing to say.
Surprisingly (not) no one replied to what he said.
P.S. nice first sentence there D.
You sound like Zuz with your English as a Second Language crap. Like you didnt know that I wasnt referring to being victimized as it relates to what I am saying, but that you are some how victimized by AR people. You are all mildly wealthy individuals who want to keep a giant cat or whatever even though it is so ridiculous, illogical and in many ways cruel to these giant, beautiful beasts. You write like you’re so hard done by — thats what I meant by victimized cutrell aka Zuz.
Hmmm…..Keeping a big cat is ‘ridiculous, illogical and cruel’? ‘Cruel’ is the easy part to debunk. Look at Z’s videos and her cat. Is it neurotic and pacing? I work with lions and big cats, and they are relatively easy to keep ‘enriched’ enough that they are perfectly happy in captivity. Illogical? Bonding with an animal is perfectly logical. We humans were meant to bond with other living and spiritual things. Ridiculous? You ought to try having a relationship with a lion or tiger sometime. I guarantee it will change your life, and that change will have relatively little to do with the fact that your new friend is a large carnivore. Hey, our cats and dogs are carnivores. There is a reason most of our pet animals are carnivores. It is because they are intelligent enough to be able to relate to us in a way that sinks into our hearts. Some people just need a cat or dog. Some people, like Z or myself, need a lion. Others who have been posting here need the love of a nonhuman primate. Animal ownership, expecially in a pet or working sense is a right as fundamental as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!
Next time I feel down and I need a little bonding I’ll try your suggestion. I’ll zip over to Africa, chase down a tiger cub in my jeep, capture it, tranquilize it and throw it on a plane taking it away from its pride and home.
Then I’ll throw it in a cage in my backyard.
But I’ll handle it a lot so it gets used to me. And I’ll give it a ball to play with and I’ll feed it and love it. And it will grow to love me. Then I’ll discover that I too “need a lion”.
Yep, that makes a lot of sense.
Not selfish at all.
Achiever, tigers do not live in prides and they do not live in the wilds of Africa, you jsu showed to the world how little you know about animals.
Achiever wrote:
Next time I feel down and I need a little bonding I’ll try your suggestion. I’ll zip over to Africa, chase down a tiger cub in my jeep, capture it, tranquilize it and throw it on a plane taking it away from its pride and home
Achiever, save your money, don’t fly to Africa. There are international laws in place that now forbid what you are talking about. Lions and tigers here in the U.S. are bred here in the U.S. This is where people get there cubs. Plus, you’d be spending a whold lot of wasted time looking for the wild African tiger, since they do not exist.
Or, maybe you should go to Africa, spend all that money, go and see lions and other cats in their natural environments. Then ask yourself this….. Do they have parasites? How long has it been since they’ve had a meal? How long do they have to live due to poachers? Do they have other medical problems that will kill them, that could be treated by a vet?
I really think that you are a smart-@ss, but that is okay. I think your heart is in the right place as far as big cats go. I just think that you have swallowed a little too much of AR carp.
I don’t want to make you angry. But if you have a sanctuary close to you, you might want to check it out and volunteer there for a while. You don’t have to own an exotic cat to get to know one. You don’t even have to fly to Africa to see a tiger.
Achiever, before you get any kind of cat, you may want to do some research, take a husbandry course, etc. Everyone here that has or works with big cats (including me) have done learning in books, in the classroom, and with other experienced handlers before they were allowed to care for cats on their own.
It’s unfortunate that Christian the lion turned out to be a huge marketing and money maker not just for Mr. Rendall and Mr. bourke but also the Born Free organization. I find it odd that they offer individuals the opportunity to travel to Africa and partake in such volunteer work. Upon further investigation this volunteer work requires the said volunteer to pay to partake in it.
http://www.worldwideexperience.com/rates.htm
Is this really volunteer work? It appears to be more like a vacation to Africa to see animals that are being kept in a reserve.
Ouch. After all my jumping all over Zuz I go and accidently write tiger. I did mean lion as can be seen by my reference to “need a lion.”
D.Cutrell, I recognize that those are valid arguments. One asks whether it is better to live free but possibly have a short, brutish life or live in a cage but get a regular meal? I think we all know what a member of the U.S. prison system (#1 in incarceration rate!)might say.
We would get the same answer from all those homeless on our city streets who prefer their freedom to regulated shelters.
But then it is tough to say, cause hey I’m not a lion, and who am I to judge a person if they choose security over freedom. Our society is built around security so it is important to humans but at the same time many systems of government that provide better individual security (communism and fascism) have failed as ideas because people prefer some freedom.
As for sanctuaries? They exist because of people like you — Promoting big cat private ownership when it is obviously an expensive and time consuming choice. Cubs are bred, go to homes who cant handle it and then they end up in shelters or terrible homes. How about you just spend all that money on supporting wildlife protection and rent a National Geographic DVD?
Archiever, you are really starting to make me laugh.
On one hand you say I have good valid arguments, and on the other, you say for me to just give my money to SOMEONE else to do the work I am willing to do myself.
I do own many NatGeo DVDs. Thank you for the advice.
What gives someone else the right to do what I want to do, but not me? You need to think about that.
Not all wild cats are unhappy. I think this is where you get all flustered. You have it in your head that wild cats are unhappy in the private sector. This simply is not the case. If it were not for the private sector owning these cats, there would be a loss in public awareness. It is the private sector that brings these cats into the schools, and allow the public to see them in their local areas.
Imagine all of the biologist and “rescuers” that would not be in their beloved fields due to lack of exposure. Imagine all of the species that would now be extinct if it were not for private ownership.
I’m glad you have not given up on this thread. Keep on posting, and keep on learning.
Also, try standing on the “fence” for a while, you might get a better perspective from up there.
Also, just for your information, Z and I are two completely different people.
copied from earlier post from Archiever:
thats what I meant by victimized cutrell aka Zuz.
But thank you for the compliment. Z rocks!!!
Hey D,
Of course I made you laugh. I’m here to entertain buddy!
So are you suggesting that you run a wildlife sanctuary? The cage in your backyard is similar to primary rainforest in Bangladesh?
“What gives someone else the right to do what I want to do, but not me? You need to think about that.”
Well political philosophers have thought about that for a long time and the answer, so far, is legitimacy. We usually achieve that through democracy. So we vote for something and then something happens. So for instance, I vote that , you, private citizen who does not need to show any proof of actually knowing how to handle a large cat, should not be allowed to own a large cat. I vote, that maybe some other institution who employs people who have some sort of paper that shows that they can work with cats, can help keep it alive. For other examples, see driving cars, becoming a surgeon and in most countries except the U.S. of A owning some crazy gun.
I know that not all wild cats are unhappy in private ownership, but I know that a lot are — and for what? Society regularly restricts our freedoms when they cause harm. I am sure that big cats visiting schools increases public awareness but how do you quantify the benefits? We don’t know for sure that this positive outcome cancels out all the crap that these cats go through from bad owners.
Would there be many species extinct without private ownership? And what do you mean by private ownership? There is a big difference between a zoo owned by a major city (private ownership) vs the weird dude at the edge of town (private ownership). The difference is, one has legitimacy, transparency and the people involved have a lot to lose versus not that much to gain. The weird guy could make lots of money and even if he spends a few years in prison if he is abusive, hey, for many it is worth the risk (please see the crime rate of the U.S. — the most violent, crime ridden democracy on Earth, yippee!).
I just think that we are at the point where tigers and such do not have much time left. I recognize that we both want the best for the big cats, but private ownership does not save them in my opinion. When one reads about animals that only exist in captivity, I basically view them as extinct. Don’t you?
to Capuchin-monkey-“mom”:
How kind of you to give your monkeys bedtimes “just like your human children”. I’m sure that they adore being treated like snotty-nosed children rather than MONKEYS. Changing their diapers? Feeding them bottles? That’s sickening. These are wild individuals, not surrogate babies. They belong in the arms of a Capuchin mother, strong and happy and proud of her babes. SHE knows how to raise monkeys as monkeys.
You don’t.
You do realize that in order to have a baby monkey as a “pet” they must be forcibly taken from the arms of their true mother? Why on earth would you inflict such suffering on a fellow primate?? Especially if you pretend to care about them?
Give those poor monkeys a rest and care for your REAL children. Somewhere a young monkey mother is pining because of you. Remember that.
I’m sure the wilds of Africa are not only MUCH more difficult, but also more cruel to a creature than a plaush back yard with toys to chase, daily affection and prepared, clean meat on a platter.
I don’t think people should steal them out of the wild, but if they are born/raised in captivity, they have a much happier, fuller, longer life. Obviously people need to be well informed and understand the risks, cost and time commitments before they purchase ANY animal, exotic or not. But there is nothing inherently cruel about keeping exotic pets.
This is a ridiculous argument. In the wild, animals have a life or death situation were animals are pinned against each other, or even driven so far as cannibalism just to see another day. I understand it is very irresponsible to purchase a lion for amusement, then give it up when he grows to big. I believe the main reason people like gogirl, who are against any sort of captivity, even productive zoos that rescue orphaned animals who would otherwise be dead, is because you are afraid of their special or exotic need being neglected. People are often irresponsible, it is a FACT. However, a captive environment is a blessing to an animal that would otherwise be fighting for it’s life. Zoos may seem humiliating to the animals, but what pays for their food and protection no other wild animal enjoys? Don’t try to compare yourselves to the animals, they are not being exploited. Think what would their life be like for an orphaned lion cub if the zoo rejected him due to the stupidity of the Animal Protection Institute? Hew would die a slow and painful death. Or maybe he gets lucky, a quick death by a snake. Be realistic.
i saw what some of yall saying…oooh where soooo bad ans blah blah blah…shut UP…ive been with so many home lions and they are happier then the ones in the wild and at the zoo…the ones at the zoo are like “i cant believe they took my here and blocked my food… -.-” and the ones in the wild are about half as happy then the ones as pets and 3x the ones at the zoos…but i do think if you are going to have one save money,have time, open a stock and dont put it in a pen/cage thats as big as a large trampoline…i would say a quater of a acre will be the min….and if u have to get a cage give it a confy floor…if cement it will destroy there feet…im 13 but ive been with 5 exotic animals and watched them
plz excuse me for bad spelling…im only a good story teller not speller
thank yoy
from:banjo playing,plane and train driven, lion tamin,trainin,playin drawin dude
i want to be a member of your group
To say that big cats should be in the wild is like saying dogs and humans should be in the wild. We are animals just like them. In third world countries people live almost in their wild state surrounded by hungry aggresive lions. In the big cities people live the good life with peaceful beer-bellied lions.
First off, I am not a big cat owner. I work with reptiles, snakes specifically, and I feel the pain of anyone in the exotic animal community dealing with these idiots.
To address this whole ‘freedom is always better’ thing- you cannot compare the feelings that humans have towards freedom with ANY animal. A) attitudes towards freedom are a cultural phenomena, not even all people have it. In fact, most people PREFER to be told what to do so they don’t have to think as long as they believe their ‘director’ has their best interests at heart (this is the only explanation I see for why this kind of debate is even necessary). B) there is no other animal on Earth capable of the level of abstract thinking that we are, in part because of C) ALL of human history and advancement has been directed towards the goal of REMOVING OURSELVES FROM HAVING TO LIVE IN THE WILD. Even we have NO DESIRE TO BE HUNGRY, COLD OR SICK. If any animal COULD grasp that they could live in captivity and be safer than they would choose to, I have no doubt. In fact, studies have shown conclusively that there are fewer stress hormanes and stress related diseases in any captive animal than their wild counterparts. This includes the ones who are pacing and showing all the other famous symptoms.
The animal rights agenda has nothing to do with what is best for the animals. In fact, in many cases they have fought AGAINST reintroduction of animals to native habitats, as with wolves in some of the federal parks. HSUS, PETA and other groups argued that it was immoral to allow those animals to live in the wild or in captivity. So, where then?
Also, zoos and private collections are two very different things. The reality that zoos don’t want you to know is that private collections generally have healthier, more genetically diverse animals and better means to deliver care. Zoos spend most of their budgets on things like food and cleaning up after the visitors, and are crippled by beauracracies that, in some cases, hold them in the 19th century as far as care practices go. A zoo in Canada recently killed a cornsnake because they put it on a hot water bottle to ‘prime it for feeding’. This kind of thing disappeared in private collections so long ago that noone living can explain the rationale for the practice. Not even the zookeeper. But the regulatory board requires it. I know 5 year olds who could have told them that was stupid. Every reptile department I have ever seen in a zoo was riddled with sick or malnourished animals. Private collectors have the freedom to learn and refine new techniques, allowing for major advancements in our understanding of the world around us. Almost all breeding successes start in the home and require an extensive knowledge of the species and their behaviors. Especially with reptiles.
And who has taken control of these regulatory boards and hampered their ability to make rational care decisions, forcing the keepers to torture their animals? Animal rights groups, thats who. They are also responsible for the requirement to shock lab animals to the heart or decapitate them in a guillotine instead of euthanasia or CO2. The only explanation that I can come up with is that they like causing pain and suffering in their wake.
As for those private keepers who do stupid things- they also beat their children, drive drunk, misspell words like ‘the’ and donate to HSUS. In other words, they are idiots. Unless we are willing to cull idiots out of the population there will always be idiots around us. They cannot be regulated away. Wayne Pacelle has famously said he wants ‘not one more dog or cat born’. Does this sound like he has their best interests at heart. People have said the same thing about jews, blacks, christians, muslims and every other group in history. Why is he treated any different?
Hello everyone.
I am a person that never enters an argument, debate, or all out war(as this seems to be) without truly researching without bias what the truth of the matter is. In the subject of private exotic animal ownership I have done years of research in deciding weather or not it is fair for all those involved, and have also listened to many peoples thoughts on the matter(both AR and exotic animal owners)to come up with my humble opinion. I am not here to start any fights with anyone, and have great respect for the concerns of others, animals included, so please be respectful with any comments posted in response.
On the subject of wild vs domestic.
I have realized that for anyone to have dogs in their family(much unlike wolves as some might be) ancient people had to have had pet wolves. Now listen to me here, people from those times didn’t have guns or even decent knives back then for close combat. The best they had were spears for long range defense and hunting(no use when a wolf is on your arm). The people of that time would have been afraid of the wolves if they attacked all the time and would not have kept them. Knowing this and the fact that their environment was so hostile that they needed to dodge death every day what with predators, rival tribes, ( and heck even their prey could kill them) why would they tolorate a dangerous animal? Please note also that they did not have cages or leashes back then. The animals were not being kept against their will. Also think of this. They didn’t have wolf chow laying around in bags, so at times the wolves(especially if the tribe had a bad hunting season) were not well fed and very hungry. Since there are obviously dogs today they must have still kept their wolves(and survived)dispelling the myth that any “wild animal” will decide to eat you when they are hungry. Lastly on this subject,(since i could go on forever) people at those times had no means of separating their children from any of the wolves that they owned, because their house was most likely a cave(if they were lucky to find one every time they needed one since they were nomads who followed the herds)and I don’t think the people would allow their children to be eaten just to keep the wolves around or else there wouldn’t be people or dogs today. If the wolves ate all of the babies, there would be no more people and therefore no dogs. And if they still bit all the time, I doubt they would keep them, as they would be more of a hazard to safety and survival. Even the more recent Native Americans were known to keep wolves as pets. Moving on…
Te subject of “wild animal behavior” and safety.
Of course I am not saying that every person should have a wolf or other wild animal as a pet, quite the contrary. The people in those times obviously knew what they were doing, and being raised around those particular creatures, knew their a lot about them. Most people today however only know what others tell them, and that is usually from TV or what they saw at the zoo for a few minutes. Not first hand experience for many years. Any animal(even a good sized dog) can be dangerous to someone without proper research, or a prior relationship with said animal. For example I saw an attack on TV by a leopard or jaguar(I forgot which, but it doesn’t matter for the example)Where someone was walking into its enclosure for the first time. Everything looked fine to him. The big cat was rubbing all over everything, seemingly happy, and then attacked him. He survived, but hopefully he learned his lesson instead of blaming the cat for what was his fault. First of all, he and the cat had just met, and to the cat, he was invading his territory,(a cats instincts tell them that that means he will take over his territory or prey if he doesn’t drive him out, since he is not one of his familiar group.) So he started marking all of his territory(the rubbing)saying mine! This also serves as a warning that the territory is taken and the owner of it isn’t giving it up. The man didn’t leave after all of the warnings, so the cat did what he thought he needed to do in order to defend his home.(what would you do if a stranger walked in your home, ignored your warnings to get out, and kept walking around?) Point is, if the man knew anything about the body language of the species before entering(despite the fact that he didn’t take the time to get to know this particular one) He would have left the enclosure before anything happened. I am not claiming to be an expert on this particular species either, an expert on the show explained these behaviors. A true responsible owner of any animal cat,dog, or lion must do extensive research on their behavior(and expenses) before deciding if it is right for them to bring one into their homes. It is the irresponsible exotic or domestic animal owner we should be warring against, not the responsible ones! A responsible owner of anything regards the needs and safety of the animal, and the people around them, above their personal wants. Both AR and exotics really want one thing, whats right for the animals. The only ones causing them both troubles are the people who don’t treat the animals right(and that doesn’t mean just owning them period)and they are the true common enemy, but don’t worry, I’ll get to them later. As I was saying, even “domesticated” animals can be dangerous if you don’t have knowledge of their language, and instincts. The dog whisperer can be a good example here. He is on TV for cleaning people up on what they should already know. How to get better understanding of your dog. He even says it himself, quote:’I train people’. Sure he works with the dogs, but he only knows what the owners should already know. Hold on now… I’m not saying that every bad dog case is the owners sole fault,(in cases of mental illness, or psychological problems, or trying to rescue an unfamiliar dog)nor am i saying that every dog owner must be some kind of expert like the dog whisperer, I just mean that they must know the basics of their language to understand problems before they arise. Not every tail wag is happy, not every barking dog will bite,not every silent dog won’t bite and so on. I could go on forever about this, but the same goes for exotics. Not everyone can raise a dog right and the same goes for exotics, but don’t overlook the fact that some can. Also, most people seem to see the bad more than the good of things. For some reason without searching for facts themselves(that doesn’t mean only searching in areas for or against certain ideas)they seem to believe that there are more bad or “incapable” owners out there that bad but in reality it is not true. There are bad ones and good ones, but when someone sees the bad they blow it up.
I once heard a wise person say that if you hear a million good stories about a pit bull and then one about an attack, the attack is the only one people will focus on.
On the subject of hypocrites.
I am often bothered at the hypocritical nature of many that i see on the internet or TV. All these people claim to love animals and nature.
All of these people think they are right, but they fail too see their hypocritical attitude. First of all are the people that say the animals would always be more happy in the wild. Then when given an example that proves otherwise, They say there are exceptions and while some may prefer it in captivity you are taking away their choice to be there. They fail to see that they are trying to take away the choice of the animals who would rather be in captivity, therefore doing the same as the ones they are accusing. Now I have been doing research in animal psychology, instincts, and well being, and I have come up with a decision on what an animal(not necessarily humans which may have different preferences) would rather have, but that is for another section. The second type of hypocrites I have come across are the people who say that we can’t get involved with nature(in the case of wounded animals that otherwise could have been helped, then released if possible, if they are used to being in the wild)Yet have hunting trips to control the population of nature. You know, the people who come in the forest with a gun, shoot things for sport(not survival like animals do)Kill more things(like bears)in the name of self defense(when we took away all of their habitat so they can’t find food anywhere else)then refuse to help any animal that needs it because it would interfere with nature and they love nature. They kind of speak for themselves don’t they? As a non-biased observer I would say either stop hunting and taking territory away from the animals before you say you can’t interfere, or at least do some positive things for the animals to make up for it because you do interfere more than you know. The third kind of hypocrites I have heard say That their concern is for the animals welfare alone, but even when given evidence that said animal is properly cared for, and happy, they dig for a reason against it often using public fears on their side to get, not what the animal wants per say, but what they desire. In the case of a properly owned lion. Its enclosure is large enough for it to get ample exercise and is sturdy enough(and tall enough if not roofed) to keep it in. The animal is in good health, fed regularly, always has fresh water out, and has many toys to play with. The owner of this lion is a responsible one and avoids anything that can cause harm to the lion, themselves, or the community.(preferably either one that is not in a tightly packed city so that the enclosure can be big enough, and other obvious reasons) However, the neighbor/s of this person are not accustomed to such a pet and are frightened. Such a pet, in their minds is not a pet and is dangerous. Regardless of the secure enclosure they think that it might escape, or that the owner might let it out “accidentally”(since they are now a bad guy in the eyes of the community) and it might eat someone. In some ways their heart is in the right place. They just want to see that the community is safe, and they may really think that the zoo could take better care of the lion than its owner because in their minds, it’s been ingrained that that’s where they belong if they are not in the wild. people also think that a piece of paper shows ability to do something when, from personal experience I can prove that wrong.(I found my cat sneezing and coughing blood everywhere. We took him to the vets who are supposed to be the professionals. They somehow thought that it was feline leukemia and that we should put him down. I decided not to, and found out that he got into the closet somehow and hooked the roof of his mouth on a metal clothes hanger. some professional. paper doesn’t mean anything)Anyway, they stir up a big to do about the pet lion that ends with them getting their way and the lion goes to the zoo.(luckily, because the zoos are usually too full and they usually get put down otherwise)The owner grieves the loss of their pet just as any pet owner would, but that isn’t enough because they are also out of a lot of money in those situations(lawsuits, cost of going to court, work clashing with court dates) and may even loose their home. also the lion will most likely never be handled again, and be put behind glass(possibly with unfamiliar lions) to be watched by strangers for the rest of its life.(which really stresses it out because it’s like constant intruders on their territory) That’s if it survives, as lions and other big cats have been known to form such strong bonds with their owners that they will not eat unless they alone feed them. The people think that the lion is happier, and that they did the right thing, but all that resulted was a lot of pain. people with the right intentions in mind need to make sure that they are the right action in reality.
On the subject of what is fair.
As I said earlier, I know a thing or two about the instincts and needs of animals “wild” or domestic, and have come to a conclusion about what the main voice of the animals would say. the main reason for “wild” animals doing things we fear or don’t like is instincts. Unlike what most people think, instincts need triggers. They don’t happen randomly. Knowing what triggers an instinct allows you to control it.(like police officers do with a police dog)We do it all the time without knowing it with our pets. take cats for example we dangle a string in front of them and they go nuts. Same with a dog and a ball. Does the dog tear you to pieces because its prey drive was triggered? Usually no. wild animals are no different if trained properly(note that in the wild their own family would be a lot less gentle in asserting who is in charge!)Large animals must respect you to be safely handled.(dogs included) Animals are not so stupid as to bite the hand that feeds them for no reason. A big part of wild animals are social creatures, and bond with their handler. What reason would they have to randomly attack?(I have the ability to pick up a gun and go on a killing spree, but I won’t because there is no reason to) Responsibly owned they are well fed and not hungry, kept from anything dangerous, and as part of the family they rely on you like they would rely on their family in the wild. It just makes no sense to me. I think some people are just too fearful and paranoid. As far as knowing what the animals themselves would want we all have to look at this in a non-biased way.(I know by now you think i am biased, simply because my conclusions are leaning more towards exotic animal ownership being okay, But as an un-biased researcher this is what I came across) An animals needs are food, water, security,(enough to live at least)and territory. All of their instincts are stemmed from these needs, each put in place to help them get food, survive being eaten, or fight hard enough to get and keep territory. Knowing all that they desire in the wild are these simple things,(not the human ideals like freedom we force upon them, taking away their true freedom) I believe it would not matter where they got them as long as they have it. Humans themselves were like wild animals once. we did not always permanent homes and fought to survive. If you asked people today weather they would rather be forced to stay in the wild with no guns and no home, or stay where they were, I bet they would say they would rather stay home where it is safe and everything is convenient. Ask those same people if that’s what animals would want and they would say that the animals would want to be free. Ask them why the animals would not want what people would want and they will say they are animals and they think different. But they are the same people that use America’s love of freedom to describe why they would want freedom. Either one way or the other people. Anyway, in truth, wild animals in responsible ownership can live good lives, and be a danger to no one. more people need to hear what they are saying. They speak of freedom for animals, then take away their choices. They speak of freedom for the people, then take their property. They speak of what is fair to the animals, but know nothing and are only forcing their own ideals out on everyone else. Now think first, Do you really care about the animals? Or your beliefs? There was a study done on the human brain on what happens when somebody’s beliefs are challenged, and the same chemicals that are present in your fight or flight response to a threat of your life are present under the stress to defend yourself. Instead of turning a deaf ear to something that truly will not kill you, I urge those who read this to please take a few minutes to think it over and do some real research(not just trying to prove your opinion right) and find the real truth.
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