What happened at Virginia Tech today is not a “tragedy”– a word you will see much used to describe this incident — it is a crime. Murder in cold blood is no “tragic” accident. But, the criminal action at Virginia Tech had barely finished before news sources began their meme against guns, those “permissive laws” controlling them and the “easy access” to them. All are common phrases used to attack gun rights and this incident is being used as a platform to launch that line of attack everywhere. It’s as if, before the last victim was even cold, every anti-gun advocate in the country hurriedly warmed up their cars to race to their local media source to call for more gun control.
CBS news gives us the claim that it is “…much too easy to get guns in the state of Virginia”. And they assure us this crime happened because “…there’s no gun registration, no mandatory waiting period to purchase weapons. The only major restriction: a limit of one gun purchase per month.” And, the CBS report is echoed all across the news media.
Unsurprisingly, the foreign press immediately jumped on the anti-gun bandwagon, as well. In the UK for instance, The Independent said in one piece, “But it would be vain to hope that even so destructive a crime as this will cool the American ardour for guns.”
Even Chicago’s Mayor Daley was blasted all across local Chicago TV speaking out against guns.
The stories like this are too numerous to chronicle and all woefully the same. (Brent Baker also has more: http://newsbusters.org/node/12075)
Things not considered
But, in the rush to the TV screens to clamor for more gun control, the media talking heads and every writer in the MSM will likely ignore several questions this crime raises.
Now, it has been revealed that the killer is a Chinese national here under the student visa program to study in the USA. So this fact raises a question that I’ll bet you won’t see talked about… why are student visas so easily handed out to foreign students from one of our ostensible enemies, China? Will there be a drumbeat to stop unbalanced foreign killers from entering the USA?
I doubt it.
(Update: The student has been named and he is a South Korean by birth and has been here for a long time as a resident alien. My point, however, remains similar in that Americans often do not have the same opportunities at education as foreign nationals. Again, the point was not his particular nationality, but the juxtaposition of “bad” visa laws compared to the gun control argument. If we can stop things like this by outlawing guns, why can’t we also stop it by outlawing visas. Just illustrating an absurdity with an absurd example.)
Here is another point that I’ll guarantee you won’t see much discussion of: schools are supposedly “gun free zones” but this foreign killer easily brought a gun into the school and, with no opposition, deliberately killed over 30 people. Some “gun free zone” that is.
But, there is no escaping the common sense realization that if some of the other students there were armed, this murderer might not have been able to take out 30 some people without some response to his actions. At least some of the others would have been able to defend themselves instead of having that natural right to self-defense summarily removed by the fantasy of the school’s “gun free zone” policy.
This disgusting, horrific action proves that if gun laws remove guns from the hands of sane, law abiding citizens, only lunatics and criminals will have them and only lunatics and murderers will be able to use them with no opposition.
This event is no tragedy. It is a crime, the kind of crime that can never be stopped by a mere law. If someone is going to lose their sanity like this, no law written on paper will make them miraculously calm down. But if anti-gun laws preventing a person from being able to defend themselves prevail, it is sure that incidents such as this will never see an opportunity to be limited as much as possible in damage and scope. Anti-gun laws don’t make anyone safer, they only limit the victims to the number of bullets a murderer decides to bring along on his next spree. Anti-gun laws are laws that assure the deaths of innocents that other wise might live should they be able to defend themselves.
The “tragedy” is in the anti-gun laws that prevented those students in Virginia Tech from defending themselves.
No, on second thought, that is a crime, too.
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Hi:
I respectfully disagree about your assertion that it has become far too easy for students from China to obtain student visa to study in America, and they some how are a threat to all of our well-beings. I personally know about 2 dozen Chinese students/scholars who have obtained student visa to study/research here in America at major research institutions/universities. All, I mean, all of them are what you can say great asset to America. They work practically like lab rats in these high level universities under the supervision of pretty good American professors, and all of their research results…become assets of these American universities and American research institutes. Now, I don’t have a problem with that, because Americans pay for their studies here, so they should own their assets. So most of these students I know, are totally non-threats (most of them very studious, hardworking, and peace-loving people) and indeed are great assets for Americans.
I agree with you on the visa issue to an extent. But, the primary issue is the proliferation and availability of guns and ammo. I doubt this Chinese guy came into the U.S. with the guns and ammo.
It could have been Chinese, Chinese-American, Irish, Irish-American, African, African-American, you name it. There are unstable people among us — in every race and creed — and when they do get unhinged, the ready access to guns and ammo turns an ugly confrontation into a potential massacre.
My thoughts and prayers to all those who suffered and are suffering tonight. What a terrible waste.
You write: “…if some of the other students were armed, this murderer might not have been able to take out some 30 people…” That would certainly have solved the problem – some 30 students reaching for their pistols and revolvers and blasting away in the classroom. Probably more would have died in the crossfire than actually perished on Monday. It is idiotic suggestions like this that will ultimately convince legislators that all gun owners are gun nuts. Scroll back to “Bill’s” comment. Ditto.
I think you are wrong on both counts….
1) this has nothing to do with immigration or visas.
2) Watch the news in the coming days and I guarantee that immigration becomes a issue blown out of proportion. Thanks for fueling the hate-mongering from the get-go, though.
This doesn’t make much sense.
Are you simply going to stop giving student visas (or indeed any visas) entirely? If not, what’s your foolproof scheme for identifying the potentially criminal and psychologically unstable in the application process? Will you share it so that it can be applied to the domestic population as well? Or do you have some information the rest of us don’t about this guy’s history in China that indicates he was unleashed on the U.S. population as a deliberate threat?
I work at a major state U. and although I have a carry license in my state I can’t and don’t carry on campus – and not just because I might lose my job. American colleges are chock full of young people in a high-pressure, transitory state of life who are experimenting with their intellects, their emotions, their bodies, and a variety of controlled substances. The facilities and the style of living mean low security for possesions as well as persons. If I or any faculty member or student, however well-trained and mentally stable, brought a weapon on campus, there would be no secure place to keep it besides on the body – not practical in many jobs, not practical for students 24-7. There are enough problems finding qualified and competent teachers without expecting them to be marshalls as well. If weapons were freely encouraged on campus, I expect the death toll across the country each year from terrible mistakes made in anger, despair, humiliation, envy, lust, and intoxication would exceed that of the VA Tech shootings. Would it somewhere prevent what happened at VA Tech from happening again? It would have to, to keep the scales even.
your right to a degree a person on a student visa from china has has no legal way of buying a firearm in Virgina or any other state for that matter with out being ether a US citizen or at least a green card. Sense it was illegal for him to have a firearm this deflates Sara Brady and the other gun control types for the law was already on the books but the shooting still happened just like when eight years ago to the day on friday at Columbine shooters broke over 18 federal firearms laws before they ever got a shot off but there was still a cry for more gun control because some people think that if one more magical law was passed it would have prevented the whole deal.
but on the other hand your wrong, there are thousands of students in the united states on student visas and the fact that one student went off the deep end does nothing to marginalize the accomplishments of these hard working students.
What a stupid article.
“Now, it has been revealed that the killer is a Chinese national here under the student visa program to study in the USA. So this fact raises a question that I’ll bet you won’t see talked about… why are student visas so easily handed out to foreign students from one of our ostensible enemies, China?”
never mind the visa, what about the guns?
“But, there is no escaping the common sense realization that if some of the other students there were armed, this murderer might not have been able to take out 30 some people without some response to his actions.”
great, a panicked shoot out with terrified students and a lunatic with handguns is just what the situation needed. that’s your example of “common sense”? wow.
Good Article.
Questions not being asked.
What was this Chinese national’s motivation? Was he some kind of Chinese communist nationalist who hated Americans and wanted to come kill as many Americans as possible? This may not be, but may very well be. More than the moronic ramblings of the absolutely clueless VT president and television dolts talking about colombine in which the only similarity is that it happened at a school, this international incident may have very well been the first Chinese communist nationalist terrorist act in the USA.
As far as the visa thing goes, one idea is allowing as many Chinese into our country as there are American exchange students willing to lower themselves and going to study in the PRC. This would limit the explotation of our country by China and clueless greedy Universities while increasing our knowledge about a country that has no goal other than maintaining a heartless dictatorship.
“this international incident may have very well been the first Chinese communist nationalist terrorist act in the USA.”
hi, here’s some tinfoil.
“as there are American exchange students willing to lower themselves and going to study in the PRC.”
nice line in sweeping racism you have there.
LoPhat, this is all politics and nothing to do with race. Fact is that the number of exchange students willing to study in China is low. Why that is that? Crack a book. I am not going to argue with you about the harsh political realities of PRC.
uh, maybe because going to china to study is a bit pointless when theres already more than enough educational resources elsewhere in the world, including the States itself? its like asking why people don’t go to the north pole to study Elephants. why would you bother when better opportunities exist elsewhere?
making straining statements regarding “terrorism” is just laughable. i bet the NRA propoganda machine love that sort of talk.
As I said before my post was about bringing up valid possibilities that may or may not be true. Anyways, we will find out eventually what happend. Something motivated this Chinese guy and there are plenty of Chinese who hate the US which noone is talking about–yet.
A second cousin of mine attended Stanford for his graduate degree and half of his group were Chinese. We visited his facility and when discussing his peers he mentioned the Chinese kept to themselves and despite prodding refused to become inclusive or be included. He lamented this fact.
Fact is the Chinese are here to learn from us and ultimately use this knowledge learned against us. In the meantime they are taking precious slots at our universities away from deserving American students. Time to rethink our love affair with having exchange students under the guise of forwarding multiculturalism.
Statistics are that 80% of handgun shooting victims survive if given quick medical attention, but in this case fewer than 50% survived. Why? At least half the students were murdered, and the rest probably bled to death, while the police organized a huge perimeter of armed and armored men — and then stood there behind cover while listening to the gunshots.
But neither students nor faculty are allowed to protect themselves. An attacker would simply take your gun away and use it against you, right? If that’s so easy, I wonder why none of the students took the attacker’s gun away and used it against _him_.
“Fact is the Chinese are here to learn from us and ultimately use this knowledge learned against us.”
nice assumption. got proof?
“In the meantime they are taking precious slots at our universities away from deserving American students. Time to rethink our love affair with having exchange students under the guise of forwarding multiculturalism.”
more thinly veiled racism. ban all visa entrants because one chinese guy went nuts? great isolationism policy you have there, you’re exactly the sort of schmuck george bush has brainwashed with his war on terror. oh i’m sorry, i meant to say “war on whoever we randomly pick at the time”.
I see a lot of ignorance in the responses.
While the visa issue is a hard one to deal with. It is a good point. This person had already violated law in acquiring the firearms. (It is illegal for a foreign national to buy a firearm without an additional federal document). The attacker then violated the law by bringing the gun into this much-vaunted, gun free zone. (Where he knew all law abiding persons would be disarmed.)
To attempt to correct the general ignorance. The majority of CCW license holders practice more often than police and are, on average more accurate shooters. For a lot of CCW holders shooting at targets is recreation, perhaps IPSC or Cowboy action shooting. Thus these shooters would tend to be more accurate than not. And if a few bullets went astray due to over-penetration or simple misses, the attacker would still go down, ending the killing in that room, thus DEFINITLEY reducing the body count.
The ONLY realistic solution to these attacks is for common citizens to be restored their natural right to carry firearms for self defense.
This shooting spree took place in a “gun free zone”, the utopia the gun banners want to have EVERYWHERE. This mass killing is a testament to the utter failure of gun control. The gun control laws only succeeded in ensuring that only the killer had a gun and plenty of unarmed victims. The hysterical crybaby anti-gun morons are blathering about “crossfire” and “shootouts” if others had been allowed to be armed, but the sad fact is that they were disarmed by GUN CONTROL, and this is the result. Why do you call the police when there is a maniac on the loose? Is it because of the snappy uniforms or the shiny badges they wear? NO! UNARMED people call the police because the police HAVE GUNS! The only way to stop this sensless shooting sprees is for civilians to be armed wherever they happen to be. Victim disarmament laws will only create more unarmed victims for the NEXT psycho.
The two kids at Columbine knew that there was a trained, armed policeman at the school that day, and that there wouldn’t be the next day, but that didn’t deter them. Does that automatically mean they were insane? Or does it mean that the symbolic nature of the date was more important? Or that the idea of a gunfight was more interesting than deterring? I suggest that a person who is even considering shooting a bunch of other people is unlikely to be strongly deterred by the idea of armed opponents, so then it becomes a matter of whether having more armed people will more quickly remove a gunman than it will lead to additional deaths from those same guns.
Aside from that, the “bad guys” don’t go around with devil horns on while the “good guys” wear halos – neither would be potentially identifiable from the other. say you’re an armed student, and burst into a room and see two guys holding guns in the middle of a firefight. do you shoot the good guy and then get killed by the criminal? shoot the criminal then get winged by the good guy who thought you were the bad guys backup? this situation becomes more complicated when you then drop yet more armed people into the situation, then deposit the police into the equation as well and round it off with a bunch of screaming, hysterical “hostages” who may well interfere in the proceedings themselves and screw things up still further.
finally, look at countries where guns are NOT a part of everyday life – most notably many nations in europe – and then tell me how come they’re not drowning in a sea of criminal related gunfire, when all they have to defend themselves with are bits of wood and a strong telling off. the fact is, take guns out of everyday situations and lifestyle, and you take death from guns out of everyday situations to a large degree too. yes, criminals will still get guns if they need them.
but then, “regular” criminals aren’t the problem here, are they? regular criminals don’t go crazy then shoot a school / university / office up. the problem is the people who appear to be normal, regular guys then snap.
STOP trying use this BLOG as DAMAGE PR CONTROL! Looking to try and save urban guns is never going win in a senseless killing like this. We have nuclear bombs for national safety, so citizens have two choices arm everyone or eliminate guns for all, except highly supervised hunting wilderness activities. This is real opportunity to question our need for protection, and what legislation is needed. VISA STUDENT, KOREAN OR CHINA, UNIBOMBER OR A JFK & MLK-KILLER, IT SHOULD NOT BE THAT EASY TO END A LIFE IN AMERICA HOME OF THE FREE.
oh and by the way, its since been revealed that cho seung hui is actually from South Korea. So please, enough with the anti-Chinese rhetoric already.
DON’T BE A ETHNIC OR RACIST, BE ANALYTICAL AND HUMANISTIC MY FELLOW CITIZENS. WERE ALREADY KNOWN AS HATE MONGERS, RISE ABOVE AND SHOW YOUR EDUCATED AND WELL BALANCED.
The killer was not a permanent US resident and not a US Citizen. IT WAS ALREADY ILLEGAL FOR HIM TO POSSESS FIREARMS OF ANY KIND AND AMMUNITION.
The murderer illegally obtained firearms, illegally obtained ammunition, illegally concealed his contraband firearms in the state of Virginia, illegally brought them onto campus, illegally created a fire hazard by chaining the exits shut, illegally attempted murder, and illegally committed capital murder.
What kind of stupid do you have to be to think passing 1 more law would have prevented this?
Maybe I’ll quote myself again.
“look at countries where guns are NOT a part of everyday life – most notably many nations in europe – and then tell me how come they’re not drowning in a sea of criminal related gunfire, when all they have to defend themselves with are bits of wood and a strong telling off. the fact is, take guns out of everyday situations and lifestyle, and you take death from guns out of everyday situations to a large degree too. yes, criminals will still get guns if they need them.
but then, “regular” criminals aren’t the problem here, are they? regular criminals don’t go crazy then shoot a school / university / office up. the problem is the people who appear to be normal, regular guys then snap.”
Those countries are clearly doing something the US is not in terms of gun control, because they have no deterrent against armed criminals, yet they don’t have a massacre every few months.
Why?
I noticed that every anti-Chinese blog and commenter has suddenly gone quiet. Falling off your high-horse hurts. Oh, BTW, South Korea is a military ally of the U.S. We also just completed the FTA with them. Also, South Korea is a VERY Christian country. Must…. Stop…. Facts…. From…. Negating…. My…. Prejudice.
Look at all these jack ass racist picking on the Chinese for this, it was Koreans. Now what, tag their it. Nope, I am personally going to push for stiff gun control on all you racist gun tot’ing punks. I am also going to rally the Virgina State Students and parents!! No more guns, this is going to be a turning point in American history, the sadness will soon turn to anger and will resolve in extreme measures….
Frank, don’t even try to pull the “race card” on this one. It does not matter if he was Chinese or Korean. Gun control advocates created the “gun free zone” that enabled this one person to commit such henious acts. YOUR gun control laws disarmed the victims. ALL GUNS were banned from the campus and it worked out really well, didn’t it? Perhaps it is you who should be re-examing your blind faith in laws to stop madmen bent on mayhem. Gun laws only disarm the law abiding and make it easier for the killers. That is a fact and this mass shooting is an example of the utter failure of gun control. Go ahead and try to ban all of the guns, it did not work on the VT campus and it won’t work anywhere else. Gun control KILLS!
JOE IM PUSHING FOR NATIONAL GUN CONTROL, THAT WILL WORK. YOUR GUN TOT’IN CARD HAS EXPIRED! NO MORE DEATHS, NO MORE, NO MORE!
THE RIGHT FOR ALL TO CARRY GUNS=ARM’S RACE, WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE TRYING TO DISARM THE NUCLEAR ARMS RACE, IT DOES NOT WORK. STOP USING THE “AMERICAN GUN CARD.” YOU TIME HAS PAST. I am personally going to push for stiff gun control, I URGE EVERYONE READING THESE BLOGS TO START THE MACHINE TO DISMANTLE THE NRA. I am also going to rally the Virgina State Students and parents!! No more guns, this is going to be a turning point in American history, the sadness will soon turn to anger and will resolve in extreme measures….
“Frank, don’t even try to pull the “race card” on this one.”
An interesting sentiment, given that the main articles entire foundation is based around a crazy rant against Chinese people. More so, given the plainly ludicrous comments posted in response.
“Gun laws only disarm the law abiding and make it easier for the killers. That is a fact..” [snip]
Okay, rather than ignoring what’s being posted, how about we try again?
“look at countries where guns are NOT a part of everyday life – most notably many nations in europe – and then tell me how come they’re not drowning in a sea of criminal related gunfire, when all they have to defend themselves with are bits of wood and a strong telling off. the fact is, take guns out of everyday situations and lifestyle, and you take death from guns out of everyday situations to a large degree too. yes, criminals will still get guns if they need them.
but then, “regular” criminals aren’t the problem here, are they? regular criminals don’t go crazy then shoot a school / university / office up. the problem is the people who appear to be normal, regular guys then snap.”
Those countries are clearly doing something the US is not in terms of gun control, because they have no deterrent against armed criminals, yet they don’t have a massacre every few months.
Why?”
JOE STOP USING RACE WHEN ITS CONVENIENT TO PUSH GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets stick with the facts and leave the emotion out of it. The VT campus was a “gun free zone” where law abiding citizens (even those with concealed carry licenses) were not allowed to carry a gun. Gun control disarmed EVERYONE except for the killer, and he was able to kill with impunity for hours before he killed himself. Your answer to this is “lets disarm everyone, everywhere”, just like on the VT campus. Rant all you want, but facts are stubborn things and the fact is that gun control simply does not work.
Lets get to the facts, guns equal death, period. You cannot characterize deaths without emotion, you should be ashamed of your position to kill more. Guns hurt people, an urban gun is not for hunting. Having elementry students carry guns too is not going to work, the wild west is gone. Wake up JOE. Wake up!
Sorry Frank, but you are very wrong. Guns do not equal death. I am not and will not ever be ashamed of exercising my right to self defense. If “guns equal death”, why do the police carry guns? Are you anti-gun, or are you just in favor of civilian disarmament? The police, who could have stopped the bloodshed in minutes, instead waited outside of the building yesterday for at least 21 minutes while unarmed people were murdered inside. You should really cool off a bit and look at the facts of this case and then maybe you will wake up to reality.
Could you please describe what exactly is an “urban gun” and exactly what hunting has to do with this discussion? You should also know that the “wild west” was actually far LESS violent than any one of the disarmed cities. Hollywood movies portray a myth, the reality is that the “wild west” was quite safe (2 murders per 100,000 compared to 78 per 100,000 in the 100% disarmed, gun-free utopia of Washington, D.C.).
FACT: Gun Control KILLs.
It was Krazy Korean, not peaceful Chinaman! Get it right!
I have to agree with Joe, guns protect the innocent…that is why police carry them. How often do we see someone walk into a police station and start shooting up the place? How long would that person survive? What if society changed its way of thinking to accecpt the reality that EVERYONE can be armed, do you think that a maniac would still feel like going on a killing spree like this?
Bottom line: Guns Protect, even if that means killing the bad guy!
In the continued absence of any sort of reply to my comment, I will assume Joe has no answer to my question whatsoever regarding countries where a mostly non-gun carrying public doesn’t immediately equal criminals going on a gun rampage.
Oh, one more addition – from Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266523,00.html
“State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Cho was a legal permanent resident — in other words, a “green card” holder — who had lived in the U.S. for several years.
A U.S. federal government official said Cho had been born in South Korea on Jan. 18, 1984 and entered the U.S. on Sept. 2, 1992.”
Official green card holder. In all likelyhood, unless he had a criminal record his guns were probably 100% legal too.
The entire premise of this horrendous blog entry just went up in flames. Night.
LoPhat, if you want to talk about europe, perhaps you should take a look at Switzerland, they require all able bodied males to keep a fully automatic assault rifle in the home, and they issue ammunition for them to train with. You don’t see much “gun violence” there do you. The Swiss are still free and have never been invaded in modern times, unlike the rest of socialist europe. You should also note that the US had to rescue the helpless, disarmed europeans THREE times in the past century(WW1, WW2, and the Cold War) because they were not able to defend themselves against the Germans twice and the Soviets once. Tens of millions of european civilians died because they could not defend themselves. That is a far greater threat than any “lone gunman” will ever be.
wow, what a stupid post. nazi germany marched through countries both armed AND unarmed because they were a superior fighting force. the swiss “never invaded in modern times, unlike the rest of socialist europe”? uh, might want to return that history book and get a refund, because England was never “invaded” in modern times either.
as for Switzerland, you’re hardly proving your point by avoiding my question – note i said *many* nations in Europe, not *all*. and yeah, you’re right – you *don’t* see much gun violence there. And this makes the gun laws in America look better how exactly?
But seeing as you mentioned it, firstly point out
a) when the last time anyone went nuts with a gun in Switzerland and
b) what they have that your own gun laws lack that results in endless massacres in the States
THEN
a) look at countries such as France and England and
b) explain how a supposedly “defenceless” population with no guns readily available is NOT overrun by gun toting criminals laying siege to innocent civilians the length and breadth of the country.
you’re hardly helping your point that everyone in America should be able to carry weapons but please, carry on.
“The student has been named and he is a South Korean by birth and has been here for a long time as a resident alien. My point, however, remains similar in that Americans often do not have the same opportunities at education as foreign nationals. Again, the point was not his particular nationality..”
You’re kidding, right?
“the killer is a Chinese national here under the student visa program to study in the USA. So this fact raises a question that I’ll bet you won’t see talked about… why are student visas so easily handed out to foreign students from one of our ostensible enemies, China?”
uh, awesome racial slurs coming through. Bad enough you haven’t even bothered to strikethrough the text or change it completely, you also provided a platform for idiots to post lots of anti-Chinese bile that turns the stomach.
Maybe in your world its okay to lazily substitute one ethnic origin for another in a totally haphazard fashion, but seeing as there are many people in the Asian American community that are seriously concerned by the potential for anti-Asian backlash you owe it to them to do nothing less than issue an apology AND a proper correction. Anything less is simply not good enough.
LoPhat, You really need a history class or two.
Switzerland teached children to use guns in school.
Switzerland requires all males to have a fully automatic assault rifle in their home.
The Swiss government requires all citizens to practice with their weapons.
During the semi-annual shooting matches people all over Switzerland carry their fully auto weapons in public.
The Swiss have the lowest incidence of violent crime in the world.
Germany attacked England in WWII, Ever heard of the battle of Britain?
Britain required it’s subjects during WWII to arm themselves against the invasion Hitler planned.
Hitler murdered TWENTY ONE MILLION disarmed civilians in Europe.
Stalin murdered THIRTY EIGHT MILLION disarmed civilians in Europe and Asia.
Moa Tse Tung murdered THIRTY TWO MILLION disarmed civilians in China.
Since Britain’s ban on firearm ownership, Gun crime has skyrocketed in Britain. The rate of violnet crime is now higher than the US.
Since Australia’s ban on firearms, Gun crime has increased over 300 percent.
In every state in the United States that has allowed “Shall Issue” concealed carry crime has dropped dramatically.
But here is a really important point. There are over 500 million guns owned privately. How are YOU going to take them away? You won’t. You will expect the police to do it. So you will make a lawful person into a criminal because they will not submit to governmental tyranny by denial of a NATURAL RIGHT. In fact the first law of nature. the right to defend ones own life, Or the lives of others. Cowards like you will send a cop to die or kill an innocent because you are afraid to take responsibility for your own safety. You want my gun? Come and take from me yourself coward.
“Switzerland teached children to use guns in school.
Switzerland requires all males to have a fully automatic assault rifle in their home.
The Swiss government requires all citizens to practice with their weapons.
During the semi-annual shooting matches people all over Switzerland carry their fully auto weapons in public.
The Swiss have the lowest incidence of violent crime in the world.”
uh, I thought that had already been established. Now please, stop ranting and tell me how they manage to have an absence of gun related massacres, yet the US has massacres with clockwork regularity?
“Germany attacked England in WWII, Ever heard of the battle of Britain?”
Yeah, we won in case you hadn’t noticed. England was never “invaded”, Germany’s air forces were sent back where they came from.
Talking about “disarmed civilians” in world war 2 is a nonsense. the only forces equipped to deal with the nazi war machine were other armies. many, many civilians tried to fend off hitlers march across europe and died horrible, horrible deaths because they were up against trained soldiers. equating some guy in his house in america with a few guns on the wall to the average working class labourer in the middle of europe in the 1940s up against the Nazi war machine is stupid.
“Since Britain’s ban on firearm ownership, Gun crime has skyrocketed in Britain.”
First off, there is NO ban on “firearm ownership” in the UK, merely tighter laws on things such as handguns. we’ve NEVER allowed such things as semi-automatics and the like because we’re not insane.
Nice invented statistics there by the way, you are completely and utterly wrong. From the Home Office website:
“Contrary to public perception, the overall level of gun crime in the UK is very low – less than 0.5% of all crime recorded by the police.”
“According to the Home Office’s Statistical Bulletin 2005/2006, there were 50 homicides involving firearms in 2005/2006, which is 36 per cent lower than in 2004/2005, when there were 78 homicides involving firearms (1). The bulletin says that, although a ‘provisional figure’, the figure of 50 homicides involving firearms for 2005/2006 seems to be ‘the lowest recorded since the late 1980s’ and is certainly the lowest since 1998 (2).”
“There has been a fall in other kinds of gun crime over the past two years. According to Home Office stats, firearms were used in 21,521 recorded crimes in England and Wales in 2005/2006, representing a fall of six per cent – or 1,375 crimes – compared with 2004/2005. The Home Office says, ‘This is the second consecutive fall in firearm crimes following a five per cent fall in the previous year [2003/2004]’
Got that? Let me break it down for you, the sum total of gun related deaths in the UK since 1998:
1998/1999 – 49
1999/2000 – 62
2000/2001 – 72
2001/2002 – 95
2002/2003 – 80
2003/2004 – 68
2004/2005 – 77
2005/2006 – 50
Wow, with just one massacre you’re well on the way to equalling the sum total of deaths by firearm for the UK in any one given year. You can read more about how you’re more likely to die in the UK by fists and feet here:
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/2877/
….and I’ll thank you never to bother presenting me with completely nonsensical “facts” about my own country ever again.
“Cowards like you will send a cop to die or kill an innocent because you are afraid to take responsibility for your own safety. You want my gun? Come and take from me yourself coward.”
Congratulations, you just made yourself look about ten years old and completely negated any (small) worth your post might have otherwise had.
This is so dumb, I don’t even have words to comment. What difference does it make if the shooter had a foreign visa. There could be a thousand visitors on visas, but if they don’t have access to guns, then there’ll be no shooting! and that goes for anyone from inside or outside the united states. It’s so stupi to attribute the crime to the fact that this person was from a different country. How about looking at the root of the problem, the guns, instead of trying to use this as a reason to foster hate
And now its been revealed that the guns were purchased LEGALLY.
So to all those who keep wheeling out “tighter gun laws wouldn’t have made a difference because they were illegal weapons k thx bye”, you can pretty much shut up now.
you are ignorant and you give americans a bad name,you know the rest of the world already see you as just a bunch of obese idiots right?coz of people like you
Would limiting student visas have prevented Dylan and Eric from killing 15 at Columbine?
How come there are no school shootings in Korea or other Asian countries? Perhaps it’s their gun laws?
Warner Todd Huston is a retard
I agree with this guy and bill ur an idiot so is everyone thats talking bad about this guy. He has a very valid point and all of you anti-gun activists should just get a life. The bottom line is that it doesnt matter what are laws are the criminals and murderers will still get the weapons and will still kill the only thing that the laws will do is make them easier to kill. The only difference i have is that maybe the students shouldnt cary the guns but, the teachers and staff should have every right to.
Owning firearms in the U.S. is a right given to us in the constitutuon, gun control is not the key to solving these problems, VERY VERY rarely do you ever hear of legally posessed firearms being used in a crime. The guns are almost always stolen.
The issue here is not the gun, it is an inanimate object that cannot hurt anyone or anything by itself, the criminal is the problem, whether he/she is chinese korean, black, white or purple, the fact of the matter is that we are all looking to point the finger in the wrong direction. gun control is not going to fix this problem, if a psycho wants a gun to kill 30 innocent people he/she WILL get one somewhere if it is not available legally. do you think buying a stolen gun on the street is that hard? let’s see no paperwork, no background check, no gov’t beurocracy to deal with, oh and let’s not forget the best part for them, no way to trace it back to them and it will probably cost alot less. as for the person being chinese/korean who cares, if he was able to posess the fireaems legally, then that was just a failure in the system, he was an outpatient at a mental facility , why hasn’t anyone mentioned this? the man at VT did not plan on committing just any crime this was a murder/ suicide from the planning stages on, i am not trying to make light of this tragedy by any means, but let us please get our perspective straight here. he could have done just as much damage with a car driving through the quad at VT, if he would have done that instead of using a gun this forum wouldn’t even exist.
Right on Thumper, and Bill on top “you are the real IMBECILE” I bet you vote Democrat .
You are correct. Whenever a gun control law is passed, the law abiding people are the one’s who are penalized. In every mass shooting, the only way it was stopped was by someone with a gun. Gun free zones are idiotic. They disarm the very people who are sane enough to be armed. The dumb scenarios posted by some just don’t hold up. The notion that people will just grab their guns and start blazing away indiscriminately is silly. If a person starts shooting at innocent people and those people are armed, the response would be for them to return fire at the individual responsible. It would only take a few shots to stop the killing and many lives would be spared. Which group would you want to be in? The unarmed helpless one or the one where you can defend yourself. Which one gives you a better chance to live on? For those that would choose the unarmed group then fine. No one forces you to buy a gun. Those who do legally carry firearms can defend themselves and others who may not be armed. Those people are good citizens as they take on the responsibility of defending innocent people as well as themselves. They aren’t just helpless victims.
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