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Caitie Parker, a singer/songwriter from Oro Valley, AZ, says that she knows Jared Loughner, the gunman that shot 19 people in Tucson, Arizona, on Saturday, January 8th. She really hoped it wasn’t the same guy she went to high school with several years earlier, as he had been a really good friend. Not only did she go to high school with him, but college as well and was in a band with him. “There were 5-6 of us that hung out” in high school. Unfortunately, it was.
At that time, she said, he was very philosophical and leaned to the ‘left.’ She said, “For the Bush/Kerry election we all wore “1 term president” buttons. That election was HUGE to us.”
He had actually met Gabrielle Giffords in ’07, and after asking her a question, told Caitie later that Gifford was “stupid and unintelligent.” The question he asked Giffords, Caitie said, “was odd & didn’t make sense, I can’t remember what it was. Just know it was weird.” The last time she had seen him in person was in 2007, in a sign language class.
Contrary to the opinion of several bloggers following the shooting, there is no evidence that Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck had any influence on Loughner. On the contrary, according to Caitie, at the time she knew him, he was left wing, quite liberal, and “oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.” “He wore shirts & bracelets about it. & liked to discuss 2012 w/ everyone!”
Their group was “liberal in wanting to change the way the world was run, we both wanted to. He took it to an extreme I never would’ve.” She said he was a “political radical” long before the teaparty, Glenn Beck, or Sarah Palin came on the scene.
Caitie also said he was a pot head and was into the music of Hendrix, The Doors, and Anti-Flag. “We listened to political punk in high school & agreed with their leftist opinions for the most part. Anti-Flag was our band.”
She states that he adhered to the “straight edge” beliefs of Anti-flag for the first few years of High School, but “Junior year & on, no.”When she knew him, he had lot of friends, smoked pot, and dated girls, “until he got alcohol poisoning” in 2006 and dropped out of school. After that, he became very reclusive and was mainly a loner.
There is NO evidence that he was influenced by conservatives, but there is good evidence he was influenced by socialists. His my Space page, for example, listed Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto as some of his favorite books.
He spent lots of time on My Space and You Tube using words and phrases that didn’t make much sense to express his angst with the world. (Screen grabs before his My Space was taken down – http://is.gd/koh1g – http://is.gd/koh1m) -You Tube – Introduction: Jared Loughner
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/1/nHoaZaLbqB4
As well as a favorite video burning the American Flag
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/f/0/3L1lsLU-kUw
There was also talk of an accomplice – a white male about 50 years old. It’s unclear where that description comes from, although it has been reported by a neighbor just blocks away from Giffords’ Congressional office in Tucson that there was possibly a package left with a bomb in it. She heard booms while they render the device, and as she drove by the area, she saw dozens of cop cars and a bomb squad…
Lisa blogs at
www.IndependentIndianPress.com
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(20 votes, average: 3.7 out of 5)
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54 users commented in " FACT: Jared Loughner: Left Wing, Liberal "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackMein Kampf is not a liberal book, despite current confusion about Fascism and Socialism. I don’t think it’s fair to try and analyze this kid’s politics as a motive any more than his apparent love of Disney films.
an overly paranoid guy obsessed with the 2012 “prophecy” who reads Ayn Rand and Hitler, and is willing to use a handgun… yeah, totally liberal.
get over it. the guy did not do this over politics, and is clearly schizophrenic, therefore any political leanings he had are completely irrelevant.
this grammar nazi was crazy. enough said.
Mein Kampf is a socialist book now ?
right, Hitler was on the left !
BULLSHIT !
it’s not because it was called national socialism that it has anything to do with socialism !!
and, communism isn’t socialism either !
So, it seems that he was left wing in high school (2007), but it is also possible that his view changed over the past three years. For example, one of his classmates reported him saying this in their poetry class.
“Don Coorough, 58, who sat two desks in front of Mr. Loughner in a poetry class last semester, described him as a “troubled young man” and “emotionally underdeveloped.” After another student read a poem about getting an abortion, Mr. Loughner compared the young woman to a “terrorist for killing the baby.””
That doesn’t sound too left wing to me. Plus, his youtube videos seem to be echoing a tradition liberatarian rallying cry for the gold standard, a view recently echoing by Mr. Glen Beck.
You right-wing Conservatives are becoming ever more comically desperate as more and more reports prove that Jarard Loughner is a right-wing, white male who lied about serving in the Army, has a tea party reverence of the Constitution, is anti-Government and wants to return to the gold standard. And Loughner really Hates that so many around him don’t speak English. The flag burning proves nothing : the KKK burn the Cross, do they consider themselves anti-Christian? One of his favorite books is Mein Kampf and Giffords is Jewish. And I’m sure that all leftists have Ayn Rand’s We the Living as one of their favorite reads.
Laughner is Tim McVeigh TNG. And if he is a a Liberal, why would he shoot a pol who’s politics almost match his own? :
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Gabby_Giffords.htm
Uber-lib Keith Oberman contributed to her campaign, too. So no one is going to believe your RANK LIES about Giffords being a Conservative.
In addition, a face book page for a Jared Laughner noting former Alaska governor and tea party favorite sarah palin as his people to admire
Loughner :
We need a drum roll for those front runners in the election; those illegal teachers, pigs, and politicians of yours are under illegal authority of their constitution. Those dirty pigs think they know the damn year. Thirdly, tell them mother fuckers to count from 0 to whenever they feel a threat to stop their count…Those illegal military personal are able to sign into a country that they can’t find with an impossible date! How did you trust your child with them fraud teachers and front runners, listener? Did you now know that the teachers, pigs, and front runners are treasonous!
One motive that conservatives are Loathe to admit is Giffords’ staunch pro-choice stand.
NYT : After another student read a poem about getting an abortion, Mr. Loughner compared the young woman to a “terrorist for killing the baby.”
Obviously, Laughner is anti-choice. And likely he is extremely anti-choice.
From The Oxford English Dictionary:
“The Nazi Party was formed in Munich after World War I. It advocated RIGHT-WING [emphasis mine] authoritarian nationalist government . . .”
The leftwing German Social Democrats and the Communist Party were the principle opponents of Nazi ideology before Hitler came to power and abolished opposition parties.
The term socialism as used in “National Socialism” was a ploy to attract the votes of German nationalists with socialist leanings. Hitler later said he regretted its use.
In the US, the American Nazi Party, Ku Klux Klan, Posse Comitatus, John Birch Society, etc. have many similarities, principle among them being the hatred of anything leftwing.
Nazism is a rightwing ideology. If Loughner is a fan of Mein Kampf, then he is a far rightwinger.
The odd thing is that famed atheist blogger, PZ Myers, instantly put up a post about this on his blog Pharyngula last night blaming Sarah Palin for inciting this ‘deranged asshole’.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/01/we_have_our_own_barbarian_subc.php#comments
Seems that was before he learnt that the murderer was an atheist.
Now he’s gone all quiet on the matter and switched the subject to beer.
Loyal to form, his devoted fan club commenters have been very charitable and not one of them has since mentioned the “A” word.
Weird that this girl wants all this attention… didn’t this guy not have hardly any friends. She’s probably a right wing nut that wants to make sure the right wing didn’t have nothing to do with this. Because you’re in class with someone doesn’t mean you know them … If you were such a good friend, how come you didn’t see this coming? In regards to the crosshairs from Sarah Palin, I don’t think it’s her fault.. it is purely that young man’s fault, however, political figures like Palin need to take this as a lesson learned that what you say can influence others.
Amusing watching the right wing trying to squirm out of this one. Hey folks, when no one’s look, try to wash the blood off your hands.
Little Caitie wouldn’t know a left-leaning liberal if she tripped over him. This young man was very fragile apparently incapable of processing any of the reading material he claimed as favorites. It was the Sarah Palins, the Sharron Angles, the Bill O’Reillys, and the right wing FOX media generally that egged on and dog-whistled the public, fully knowing that their rhetoric would shake loose the weak-minded. The anti-abortion crowd did this to Dr. Tiller, and Sara Palin did this to Rep. Giffords.
Maezeppa, you are full of hatred yourself and you won’t be satisfied unless you can connect this nut to the right… Unfortunately for you, this guy has himself listed as a Democrat on his facebook, he burned flags and hated religion so JUST STOP-you’re embarrassing yourself he was also well read on all marxist reading material….FAR LEFT NUT JOB-just like you
He seems to have some obsession with illiteracy in the cousel member’s district.
What makes this all the more horrible is he just looks like kid.
Great article Lisa, the liberal left is destroying this great nation.
Trust the right leaning wingnuts to try and put the blame on others. Who needs proof that the gunman was influenced by crazies like Beck and Palin Any person that is remotely intelligent can see that the probability is high for that to be the case.
It’s the rights fault….no,the left is to blame….no the right,the left,the right, the left….it’s your rhetoric….no it’s yours….your an idiot…no you are…no you are…same to you but more of it.
I know, let’s blame Jared Loughner
Shorter Tommy: “Who needs evidence? The story fits!”
Username said,in January 9th, 2011 at 6:37 am
“an overly paranoid guy obsessed with the 2012 “prophecy” who reads Ayn Rand and Hitler, and is willing to use a handgun… yeah, totally liberal.
get over it. the guy did not do this over politics, and is clearly schizophrenic, therefore any political leanings he had are completely irrelevant.
this grammar nazi was crazy. enough said”.
Username wins the prize for best analysis and maturity among the blathering of comments.
I wonder how many folks on this site spouting off about Mein Kampf have actually read it? You all seem very convinced it was a “right wing” book, but if you read it for yourselves I think you will find that Hitler’s beliefs were much more in line with modern liberalism than modern American conservatism.
“Right” and “Left” lose their meaning, or are misunderstood, because people often use a very different point of reference to define them. Also while a person may lean toward one side or the other, human beings are complicated. Beliefs on certain issues, like abortion, may not be in line with what was expected of them based on other beliefs.
If I say to you I believe gay marriage should be federally sanctioned, tax rates should be raised on the top earners in the country, marijuana should be legalized and illegal immigrants should receive amnesty, what would you assume my take on abortion would be? If you found out I were against abortion, would I be a liberal or a conservative at that point?
Until you have a larger picture of a persons beliefs as a whole, and more importantly WHY they believe what they believe, it is very difficult to make any solid determinations about motives.
Bottom line though, this guy was crazy. Left or right, he would have found a way to rationalize what he felt he needed to do. Hell, just look at how all of us rationalize our beliefs in these comments.
Hey Morons. This article was mearly a REACTION to the lib press instantly blaming the shooting on the tea party….as it turns out Loughner was not right wing. Oh and by the way ‘Communist Menifesto’ was another of his favortite books (you left that one out)
The whacko kid had Nazi books and tried to kill the first Jewish congress member from the state of Arizona after smoking more Mexican ditch weed than Glenn Beck did, if that is humanly possible.
Sorry, no libs here. Not even Giffords, she voted with GOP sixty percent of time.
Hitler was as left wing as it gets. Total government control over every aspect of peoples lives.
It’s the conservatives who want smaller government,.
This whole thing is embarrassing. I can’t get past the clearly ill-educated author of this blog who thinks Mein Kampf and Hitler were products of Socialism! FYI, mentioned “Communist Manifesto” in the same paragraph doesn’t win you any brain points. When will you guys EVER look up the difference between Socialism, Communism, and Marxism?? They are ALL DIFFERENT IDEALS. Jesus!!!
The shooter was clearly disturbed and practically apolitical from what we know at the moment. From early accounts, this could’ve been the conservative candidate who narrowly lost to Giffords, and we might have had the same outcome. Loughner has CLEARLY been swept up in a wave of anti-government rhetoric — “second amendment remedies,” “Don’t retreat. Reload.” The list goes on and on these days. Will the lessons of Oklahoma City and Tim McVeigh NEVER be learned?? The victims and families of the deceased from that day must beside themselves.
The violence is painful for EVERY American, but this willful (or just sad) ignorance is the most devastating, because it means this will never get better.
The NAZI where and are a radical leftist movement. You have to remember that the Church was a quasi political institution in Germany since the day’s of feudalism so if Hitler wanted total power he had to co-opt/silence them(any Minister that spoke out against Hitler was brutally silenced).
The only reason Nazi’s are considered “right wing” is because of nit-wits using the Fabian Socialist political spectrum. In that political spectrum the far left is totalitarian international communism and the far “right” being totalitarian national socialism.
From an American perspective that political scale is totally bunk. In America it is often the closer to the left= authoritarianism, farther right= anarchy-capitalism(hence far right wacko’s tend to be anarchy survivalist’s).
Seriously look up the NAZI’s 1930′s platform with the Democratic Parties 08 platform. Almost identical. As a side note one could also consider neo-conservatism and social conservatism to be left-wing ideologies as well(at least I do when it comes to voting and stuff).
I seriously wish that those that prefer European politics and political structures would move there. America and Europe has over 300+ years of political and social evolution that clearly separates us. That is why communism, socialism and feminism(all European social/political constructs make little sense, seriously look up feminist’s rhetoric and what not. That rhetoric is justified to a degree in Europe but makes 0 sense from an American perspective{in Europe class based rapes and what not happened alot, in America.. well many rich rapist’s are recorded as being hanged either by a court of law or a an angry mob, + when ever women earned it as individuals they tended to get it, case in point women who “illegally” served in the military during America’s early wars where given military pensions but I digress}).
Thanks, Juststop, Xrlq, Chatstu, Jim and Joe.
The fact is – it’s all conjecture – except for what this girl, who not only knew him but was one of his best friends for years, has to say and what he wrote about himself.
The point of the article isn’t to accuse Liberals of murder. It is to defend against this idiotic attack accusing conservatives of murder.
It looks like all the paid commentors are back out in droves. Haven’t seen this many since October 2008. The Left, in a panic since November 2010, was hoping something dramatic would happen for them to use to slander half of America with. Looks like they found it.
I don’t believe it.
Let’s see….
1.White Male
2.22 years old
3.Loved Mein Kampf (book KKK and skinheads love as well-both groups are NOT liberal)
4.Publically hated people who don’t speak english. (Doesn’t align with liberalism)
5.Posted on Youtube that he hated our current government administration (Which would be Obama’s)
6.Posted on Youtube that currency without gold is useless (Same thing Glenn Beck preaches EVERY NIGHT)
7.Had a picture on his Myspace page with a gun on top of the constitution (Hmmm… Doesn’t sound like liberal symbolism. GUNS? Hmmm who loves guns?)
8.Doesn’t trust the government (Sounds like anti-government rhetoric, very un-liberal)
9.Murdered a woman who recently beat out a tea party candidate (No comment)
10. Was quoted in saying that he wanted to start a revolution by killing anyone associated with the ACLU and the Tide foundation (both liberal foundations)
11.Tagged “Sarah Palin” on his Youtube page
12.Another favorite book was Farrenheit 451, a book that discusses decreasing government’s role in terms of censorship (A Tea Party mantra)
13.Quoted to say: “Don’t trust the current government, listener!”
14. Giffords’ Republican opponent in the 2 November race for a seat in the House of Representatives was Jesse Kelly. He had held a campaign event in which he invited his supporters to “Get on Target for Victory in November”. He asked them to “Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office – shoot a fully automatic M15 with Jesse Kelly.”
15. Has posted comments from MySpace that show he is associated with the American Renaissance group a known white supremacist group that promotes the Tea party (http://www.businessinsider.com/alleged-az-shooter-may-have-links-to-pro-white-racist-organization-2011-1?sailthru_m=h2b)
So I mean, if we want to discuss facts, let’s do more than quote a girl who “barely knew him” and hasn’t seen him in 5 years shall we? Also, I think we’d all do better to just agree for now that this man was CRAZY, and not attempt to pin him on any political movement until more facts come out. This is a sad day in America.
Fact: Jared Loughner was Right Wing Tea Party, follower of Hate Monger, Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck
Guardian.co.uk
Giffords’s father was among the first to point a finger elsewhere. As he rushed to his daughter’s hospital bed, 75-year-old Spencer Giffords was asked if she had any enemies. He wept and replied: “Yeah, the whole Tea Party.”
The congresswoman, the first Jewish woman elected from Arizona, was a target for Tea Party rage after she voted in favour of what Palin denounced as the president’s “socialist” healthcare reforms and opposed what many described as racist new anti-immigration laws in Arizona.
The windows of her office were stoned or shot out, and Tea Party protests were regularly held at which Giffords was denounced as a traitor to the constitution and the country.
Like other members of Congress who supported healthcare reform, Giffords faced vitriolic attacks at town hall meetings by what she would call the “crazies”. Across the country, Tea Partiers accused their elected representatives of betraying America, of being Nazis or communists for supporting Obama’s attempt to ensure that everyone has access to healthcare. With the rhetoric came the regular allusions to armed resistance.
In August, the police removed a protester who arrived at a constituency meeting held by Giffords after a gun he was carrying in a holster fell out and clattered on the floor. Another activist arrived carrying a rifle, legally, at a protest during an appearance in Arizona by Obama.
During last year’s elections, Giffords was among Democrats targeted on Palin’s Facebook page through the crosshairs of a rifle. After protests, Palin removed the crosshairs. Giffords was also the target of a campaign advert by her Tea Party-backed Republican opponent, Jesse Kelly, a former marine who served in Iraq, who she beat by the slimmest of margins. “Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly,” it said. Kelly appeared on his own website in camouflage gear, holding a gun to promote the event.
This was 2006 – 5 YEARS ago! The guy believes in hard money/gold standard, a 1787 interpretation of the Constitution, is pro life, pro gun, anti immigration, belonged to American Renaissance and Free Republic. His tradition is the same as the teabagger tradition, no mistake about it.
The guy is a straight up lunatic. Democrats need to shut their pie holes because he has more in common with them than Sarah Palin.
Latest news: Loughner linked to “American Renaissance”, a self-described “conservative” publication.
Memo leaked from DHS:
“[S]trong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.”
Jared Loughner Ties to Tea Party and White Supremacy Exposed
+5by Breaking News
Posted 12 hours ago Read all 23 opinions Department of Homeland Security is investigating Jared Loughner the Arizona shooter for having direct ties to a group called American Renaissance a right wing anti-Semite, anti-government group that supports the Tea Party cause and has Tea Party HQ advertising on its website.
Full story: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47308.html
The website is here: http://www.amren.com/
The website is full of anti-Semite and white supremacy articles and is supported by advertisements of Tea Party flags from the Tea Party headquarters.
There is a confirmed connection between the white supremacy groups and Tea Party and Stormfront a well known white supremacy group has attended and hosted Tea Party events.
Russell Pearce Tea Party leader and the designer of the Arizona SB1070 immigration law has confirmed ties to the Nazi party and recently held a Pheonix Rising SB1070 rally in the desert where many white supremacists were invited to speak (see videos)
Congresman Rand Paul Tea party darling accepted donations from Stormfront and did a fund raiser at a Stormfront sponsored knobcreek shootout event.
American Renaissance has confirmed ties to Stormfront and the Nazi movement. Stormfron recently announced the American Renaissance conference in 2011: http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t757302/
Russell Pearce and Sarah Palin attacked congresswomen Gifford on their websites and at Tea Party speeches last year.
If Loughlin was involved in the white supremacy movement and has ties to American Renaissance, Stormfront and the Tea Party it could indicate this was not the random act of a deranged person and was a deliberate assassination attempt on government officials coordinated by these groups.
Arizona shooting suspect may be linked to anti-Semitic group From: NewsCore January 10, 2011 12:41AM
THE suspect being held over Saturday’s shooting of US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords may have links to anti-Semitic race hate group American Renaissance.
An internal Department of Homeland Security (DHS) memo quoted by FOX News Channel revealed the gunman – named by the media as Jared Loughner, 22 – is “possibly linked” to American Renaissance.
The group subscribes to an ideology that is “anti-government, anti-immigration, anti -ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti-Semitic,” according to the DHS memo.
Giffords “is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate,” the note said.
The suspect’s mother works the Pima County Board of Supervisors in Arizona, the briefing added.
The DHS confirmed that the FBI have now taken over the investigation.
Giffords, who was wounded after being shot in the head from close range, remains in critical condition in the hospital Sunday.
Six other people died and 13 were wounded in the shooting.
From the Arizona Secretary of State Voter Information Web site:
Jared Lee Loughner
7741 N Soledad Ave
TUCSON, AZ 85741-1316
Political Affiliation of record: REPUBLICAN
Precinct Information: MTN VISTA UU
3601 W Cromwell Dr
TUCSON, AZ 85741
Those that say Loughner was a liberal flat out lier. It has been reported in multiple sources that Lougher described abortion as murder. There have also been confirmed reports that his voter registration was, wait for it, Republican.
It appears the corrupt Republican spinmasters can’t resist taking advantage of such a tragedy.
Poor Jared. Even a far-left, radical, lib like him was turned off by todays Democrat party. His friends say without a doubt he was far left and radical, not conservative. At some point the leftist ideology sent him off the rails, which probably explains the bandana-wearing, storefront-smashing, car-burning leftists we see with some regularity.
From what I have heard the guy was a nut case breaking down and expelled from his community college for disruptions. Politics is irrelevant except when it encourages such acts by those such as he. Let’s get back to civility.
I think you can look at anyone and associate a political party to them, and some are very radical and extremists. BUT it doesn’t make you a killer.
This man was Mentally Ill. He obviously was Schizophrenic (most likely Paranoid Schizophrenic) and was ‘undiagnosed’ from what I know. He was at the right age for developing this illness of the brain.
Society however, likes to focus on everything but the cause. They love to put bandaids on broken legs and then cry because it’s not working right.
If you don’t get to the root of the Virg.Techs, Columbines, etc., we will not ever be rid of these killings. As a society we like to ‘deny’ mental illness, ignore it, hide from it, stigmatize it, make fun of it, be afraid of it, medicate it, lock it away, etc..
It is the least funded medical issue in our government. Heart disease and Cancer are funded, but a lot of it can be preventable. Most of society is unaware of what mental illness really is. Your brain can be diseased just as well as your heart or kidneys, etc. It is an organ. To hope mental illness just all goes away and it not ever be in your family is just ignorance and denial.
There are prevention measures out there for screening, and I wonder where was (society) when this young man was smoking pot (which by the way is directly linked to schizophrenia) and drinking and having loose associations? *No, not everyone who smokes pot gets schizophrenia, but it has been linked and most likely there is suseptability just as anything else we are exposed to*
Did the school follow up with this drop out? Where the hell are his parents? Has this guy had a job? How has he held a job? How did he pay to go to college, just to get thrown out of class for being disruptive? Where were the resources at school? I personally think the school is lucky he didn’t pull a Columbine on them. This is just the type of thing that could of occured. If he wasn’t so “Obsessed” with politics, he could of shot another group of people and everyone would of claimed it was the students faults for bullying him.
Whatever the cause that drives him to go over the edge with the psychosis, it still doesn’t address his ‘mental illness’ which is the root of the problem. Throw in a society of students that bullies a young man, and he goes back and kills the students. Throw in a society that spews hatred and rhetoric of hate on a daily basis, he then goes and kills political figures. Throw in a society that fires a man from his job, and he goes back to the factory and shoots them. It doesn’t matter what the scenario is, the fact is, the guy is Mentally Ill.
Society has to treat the root of the problem. Not ignore it, fire it, kick it out of class, bully it…. That only serves to fuel the fire of an already Paranoid Schizophrenic who is having a psychotic episode and can’t distinguish reality from fantasy.
There are millions of people with schizophrenia and they would NEVER have this behavior. Very sad that no one stepped in to help this young man and he was this out of control for this many years!!!
Ok, through ranting. Sorry, I am just as irritated about all the hate going on in this world as everyone else. It’s in our homes, schools, workplaces and society. There are those who do seem set on using a public platform to spew the hate, and it does feed the mind of the public. It needs to stop. Those folks know who they are!
By the way LISA, very Irresponsible of you to title this: Left wing Liberal. Are you for real? I wonder how much thought you really gave that before you posted it. You may just be part of the problem that you are so saddened about.
I don’t think that politics really had much to do with this poor young man’s insane act of violence. I would guess that, as with a lot of other people, the idea of a cause gave purpose to his life, made a somebody out of a nobody.
If her were alive 40 years ago (and at university) he might just as easily joined up with the Weather Underground or the SLA, because in those days elements of the Left (many of them lionized, thought they be murderers like Che) were spouting revolution and the (not so hidden) threat of violence for their enemies.
Today that kind of rhetoric is coming from the more extreme elements of the Right. They are the ones talking about Revolution while claiming underdog status, something which likely appealed to Loughner. Like it or not Beck hammers home the coming ‘end times’ of America due to hidden international conspiracies of which our president “might” be a part of. And Sarah is prone to use the more combative martial turn of phrase. And the Tea Party as a whole, from Grandpa to Momma Grizzly has put forth a revolutionary bellicose face.
WILL YOU ALL STOP TRYING TO MAKE THIS POLITICAL?
FACT: Jared Loughner is actually a registered REPUBLICAN in AZ District 08 – heres his voter info page
http://bit.ly/i6dab
Boy some of you people who think you have the NAZI’s as rightists are off your rocker. The term Nazi is a derviative of the corret german acroynym NSDAP.
The National SOCIALST Deutchland Apharteid.
The national socialist party of Germany. They were national socialists… same as China, which eventually evolved into communism. My God, you are idiots, the term SOCIALIST is in their name for crying out loud. You so-called “informed and educated” leftists make me sick; too much time drinking the Kool-aid your bearded freak professors were spewing at you.
The only difference between National Socialism and Fascism is the allowance of private property. Total authoritative government control is on the LEFT you bozos….
I am beginning to seriously loathe ignorant leftist nit-wits. Anyone who thinks Nazism is “right-wing” move to Europe.
This is America and in America since the dawn of the Republic we had our own political spectrum.
The Fabian Socialist spectrum only works in countries where a citizens rights COME FROM the government.
In the Fabian Socialist spectrum Nazism is right wing.
But, and I repeat BUT, in the American political spectrum, because ALL RIGHTS COME FROM THE CITIZENRY!, the farther left= totalitarian-authoritarianism and the farther right= anarchy, anarcho-capitalism.
The whole Fabian Socialist Spectrum was something progressive intellectuals forced down Americans throats in the 20th century and it is not relevant in any shape or form in American politics.
But as a conciliation prize according to the American Political Spectrum neo-conservatives and perhaps even social conservatives could be viewed as left wing because they tend to push for authoritarianism.
Remember America is one of the few, very few nations with an ironclad freedom of speech. Most European nations don’t even have an ironclad freedom of speech.
@Kris W
You just proved your own ignorance. Here in Europe we have things so much better because even our politicians can say if they’re atheists. In USA (the left out on purpose) it’d be a political suicide.
Was it religion or some other dogmatic system (communism, nazism, superstitionism) most of the Europeans can question that without a fear of being kicked out of social circles and being social outcasts.
You americans are so bi-polarized just because you’re too lazy to think for yourselves. It’s so easy to follow the herd and shake your fist in anger and blame it to anyone else but yourself, when in fact looking at the mirror would reveal the real culprit.
@Karen
I’d shut up if I was like you and unable to comprehend what the word atheist means.
It means doesn’t have a belief in deities. I am an atheist and I most probably believe only one god less than you do. I suppose you don’t believe in Shiva, Thor, Näkki, Pink invisible unicorn or the flying spaghetti monster.
By the way the world’s most famous christian creationist was Adolf Hitler. And I’m not blaming his crimes to rest of the christians, but christians blame atheists for his ‘atheistic’ crimes.
Reading Main Kampf is good reading for understanding what religion can produce.
You know that Hitler used Martin Luther’s texts because Martin Luther hated jews or maybe he learned his hate from there. Who knows.
Arguing in abstract about the qualities of socialism and Nazism is fruitless. Hitler claimed to be a socialist to gather support, and used socialist ideas to justify his ascent to and control over Germany. However, once in power, he imprisoned the leaders of the socialist party, because they vehemently opposed him. Nazism is a form of dictatorship. Socialism has many varieties, but socialism, by definition, does not support a dictatorship.
I must say that I am saddened greatly over the things said on this page to this point. Almost to a point they are incorrect. But, I do not blame the posters for this, I instead blame the purposeful “uneducation” instituted by the current US system. I will try to help as best I can.
First, The two books most frequently quoted, “Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto” do not make this man neither a Nazi nor a communist. They are books that have had a profound impact on both political thinking and history. Most people who have a degree or personal interest in these subjects would have read them. They do have one unifying philosophical theme however, and that is totalitarinism. A strong central government that overides individual needs for the betterment of the state. Not an ideal shared by modern American conservatives, but rather with the global socialist movement.
The suspect is a registered Independent and did not vote in the past election.
The suspect had a political relationship with Ms. Giffords that dated back to 2007, long before the Tea Party or Sarah Palin gained any national influence, so blaming them is just not correct.
As far as links to specific political groups is concerned, there is only one. He attendend a school whose curriculum was partially written by Willim Ayers and the Small School Workshop. Ayers is definately not conservative, by now we all know he was a 60′s era domestic terrorist who failed to kill dozens if not hundreds of people when his bomb misfired. All told, boards on which Barack Obama sat delivered $1,087,556 to Bill Ayers’ Small Schools Workshop. Barack Obama is no conservative either.
On the subject of violence being a “right wing” only tool, I offer the following; The Bolshiviks never killed anyone, Stalin never, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro.
All the people who knew the suspect have echoed the fact that his politics “leaned left” to use a scale that has no meaning, but I use for clarity only. It seems that the left has their own McVeigh, and their only chance to hide the fact is to offer the “false debate” that he was an anti-semitic, tea partier, thus changing the discussion from what he actually believed to what the journalists who hate the tea party want him to believe. There is no evidence of his affiliation. I only wish evidence mattered, but it doesn’t. Many innocent people were killed or wounded by this man and they are the victims here. May peace be upon them.
ps, all the above is fact and can be researched quickly on google and checked on many reputable websites, so please check the truth before speaking.
The figure on money given to Ayers Small School Workshop may be incorrect…it may be more.
One last thing for the European.
To say that Hitler was a christian creationist is about as absurd a thing as I have ever read. He persecuted one thing and one thing only…anyone who opposed or represented a threat to his power. Hitler’s germany was, in fact, a modern secular state with no offical religion other that to the state and most importantly, its leader…If anything he aspired to recreate a “germanized” version of the Roman Empire, complete with ancient germanic pagan rituals, heil Hitler = hail Caesar, and the fascii. Fascii being the root of the term fascism incorporated in the symbolic golden eagle truncheons carried by the Roman legions and the Third Reich. It is a symbol of state or imperial power.
Democtrats started talking smack first, trying to make political hay out of this before the dead were even laid to rest. Despicable. Tripping all over themselves to do a gun ban and blame the tea party? Weird how the Media were all lock-step in pushing a decidely liberal bias.
I just thought it was weird that they jumped to assume Sarah Palin was guilty somehow. Yet no ojne wants to blame the sick mofo that did the crime!
To be accused of something outrageous (blood libel) and then be boxed-in by the Media and then forced to defend oneself on tv, and then be accused by CBS of ‘bickering’?? That kind of shet is lame. Liberal commies (‘The View’) always think they’re correct. Sarah Palin is right!
Liberals started this crap. That sick guy burns Americsn flag; that’s a liberal not a conservative.
Obama talks about not ‘pointing fingers,’ but he should realize that it has been DEMOCRATS that starfted the shet by doing the finger-pointing in the first place after the tragedy! Geez.
This is a concerted effort to try to throw cold water on dissent … by feigning a call for ‘civility’ just to say shut up now and let us take America leftward into socialism.
Being obtuse is no excuse. Arm and reload is a term that country/rural people get. It’s not lyrics from a gangster rap song.
Saying lock and load means ‘lets do this,’ and military guys say this commonly and don’t mean an actual gun. Duh.
Sidetracking a tragedy to use it to shame dissent into not being spoken is unpatriotic. Bickering? If you talk shet to someone – expect to be to told off. Don’t hide behind mommy’s apron and tell people to tone it down when it’s your fault. Don’t want none? Don’t start none. Pray for the victims and fry the bad guy. No editorial forsys into bullshet. The bad guy was a liberal, yet we blame Palin? dumbfokk.
Could it be possible the kid didn’t know what he was politically? Reading all your comments, he seemed to be a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
He made this political because he didn’t like the evasive answer he recieved from his “weird” question he posed to Ms. Giffords? What? This kid has a past with numerous people telling “media” that they were frightened of him and worried he’d shoot someone or many. He needs psychological help – Even if he does tell us why he did what he did, I don’t even know if I’d believe him. I honestly don’t think he knows. AND neither do we nor does the “press”.
@Truthspeaker
You ought to read the book Mein Kampf and Hitler’s speeches.
No “evidence” just 30 tons of innuendo
Republicansarecorrupt, John Bryans Fontaine, Cutitout, William R. Catton, Jr.,and lynmyers – You are ALL full of it. Loughner is a Liberal. Pima County records prove it. Him, Lanza, Dorner…all LIBERALS. And they want to take your guns away while they falsely blame Sarah Palin and other conservatives.
Get smart, like I did. I was once a brain-dead Liberal before I woke up in the mid-1990s. Turn conservative and do not listen to idiots like those listed above. Their “sources” were wrong about Loughner.
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