You know when you have hit the big league on the internet when you start getting attention at governmental level. It seems that there is a bit of an international ‘pissing match’ going on between a quasi Indian government puppet company named E2-Labs and an Italian security company Zone-H.com.
I have no real clue what they are at battle over, but this BNN Article seems to be at the heart of the trouble.
I was contacted by someone purporting to be with some Cyber Crimes unit in India who demanded that I hand over email and IP address information on an individual who had left a comment. I declined, our policy is not to give out that information, BNN holds peoples privacy in high esteem.
I did however say that if I was contacted by a US based Attorney or Government official who could verify that compliance in this matter is covered by US law, I would comply.
Our Cyber Crimes expert got a little huffy and went away.
This was the letter I received that started this idiocy.
I am a firm believer that you capture more wasps with honey than you do vinegar. I didn’t like the tone of this persons emails, and so I dug my heels in.
Today I received the following:
What I find interesting is that this is not a criminal case, but a civil one. These documents clearly talk about a beef between E2-Labs and Zone-H. What is interesting is that this set of documents shows that E2-Labs (India based) are petitioning to put this article www.bloggernews.net/12409 under censorship. I guess if the Chinese can have the Great Firewall, India can have the Vindaloo Wall.
For those of you in India that cannot access the article, here is a reprint.
It has been brought to the attention of Naavi.org that the Government of India might have blocked the website zone-h.org. Naavi.org has therefore checked the background of the non availability of zone-h.org from India and place its reading of the situation as under.
As of now (march 11), it appears that the site zone-h.org is not accessible in India. Zone-h.org is a reputed information security website often referred to by security professionals and there is no apparent reason for the same to be blocked because of any content on the site.
However what is interesting is to note that the site has been carrying a few articles in recent days which are critical of a Hyderabad based company called E2 Labs. In a recent article, Zone-h has categorically stated that E2 labs has been trying to attract investors with certain project information which states that zone-h is a business partner for E2 labs. The site zone-h.org states that it has no business relationship with E2 labs and the contents of the documents released by E 2 labs and accessed by Zone-h.org through wikileaks is false. (For a copy of the complete article visit http://www.naavi.org/cl_editorial_10/e2labs_zoneh_org.pdf )
If the contention of Zone-h .org is true, then a serious question is raised on the business ethics of E 2 labs . It is open for Zone-h.org to take appropriate legal action against E2 labs. If the contents are incorrect, E2 labs can take-up defamatory action against zone-h.org.
In this fight, readers may wonder where is the scope for blocking of Zone-h.org website because it carries a potentially defamatory article on E2 labs. So far except when political leaders such as Sonia Gandhi or community icons such as Shivaji have been defamed, Government has not taken any action to block the websites. In fact the Government has developed a cold feet even in blocking of kirtu.com. It is therefore surprising that potential defamation of E2 labs is considered sufficient ground to block a respected website such as zone-h.org.
In information just received, it appears that CERT In was not instrumental in the blocking of the website but the same was ordered through a Court action in Hyderabad.
One option available for Zone-h.org now is to request for reconsideration of the Court decision which should have been restricted to removing of the contentious article alone instead of blocking of the website.
At the same time we need to take note that the document referred to in the article also highlights that E 2 labs is the “Principal Consultant of CERT_Inâ€. It also states that it is going to be appointed as an advisor of Defense establishments etc.
Since CERT-In is the nodal agency for the national cyber security of India, if the charges made by Zone-h.org is true, E 2 labs would be unsuitable for partnering CERT-In.
In veiw of the fact that this is a serious national security issue, it would be better if Government of India makes a suitable statement clarifying the role of E2 labs in national cyber security. In particular, public are entitled to know if E 2 labs is really the principal consultant of CERT-In and if E 2 labs is also going to be appointed as a consultant for the Indian Defence Forces as they have claimed in the said document.
Naavi of naavi.org
This whole deal is BS! I could care less than less about this story. It seems to boil down to a fight between Curry and Pasta. From a culinary point of view I would take Indian over Italian every time. When it comes to fighting over computers, I could care less.
Personally I think it is a Cyber Crime that large US computer companies ‘out source’ their telephone tech support to India and other countries. Hell there are even off-shore collection agencies!
I am hoping that I have heard the last of this boring, pointless, and time wasting escapade.
Simon Barrett
(3 votes, average: 3.33 out of 5)
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13 users commented in " Blogger News Censored In India "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackThis is just the kind of crap you want to deal with when you are fighting a cold!
hahaha The whole thing is rubbish! Why they brought this fight to BNN is beyond me. I do know that if these idiots continue they will be up against the Great Wall Of Simon. I’ll just ban all IP’s from India!
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I would like to make two observations for clarity:
1. One of the hyperlinks in the article is incorrect. Article under reference is 124029 and not 12409. Kindly correct.
2.The above article refers to two different incidents. The E2 labs issue emanates because of a defamation complaint being heard by Delhi High Court. The Bangalore Cyber Crime PS case is different and pertains to a defamation charge on a doctor in Bangalore.
Naavi,
1)The hyperlink is correct 124029, and that is the link referenced in the court documents.
2) I am sure that the situation is far more complex than I care to research. However, it is clear to me that not everyone is being as candid as they should. The first letter that I received was a ‘demand’ for information and the removal of a comment.
Needless to say I told them to go away! I would comply only if they could cite legal US statutes and that I recieve the request from a US based attorney or government entity.
None of these requests were satisfied. The second document concerns a civil suit between two entities that I could care less about.
Quite honestly it might be time to just switch on the great wall of Simon and ban all traffic from India.
Is there no ‘freedom of speech’ in India?
Response to Mr Simon:
The link correction I suggested was at the second place (para after the four image links).
In the case of E2 labs, the complainant has used the comment made on this blog to draw the attention of the Court to strengthen his case. The victim if any however is the Court and at present the Court has simply responded with a notice to the relevant parties. Decision of any kind has not been taken.
A question may be asked if the Court could have summarily rejected even the sending of the notice?.. Perhaps yes. But in many cases the Court may not go into the merits in depth at the stage of issuing the notice.
I am sure that Indian Courts are not harsh on freedom of speech and I do hope that the request for the subject comment to be treated as “Contempt of Court” will be considered by the Court with due regard to the concept of freedom of speech.
As regards the Police asking for information in a pending investigation of a case, it is a routine duty. The question here is whether it was right for the Police to have contacted you directly or should they have come through the Interpol?.. Probably the correct procedure would have been to come through Interpol.But there is nothing seriously wrong in seeking the information to cut short the process time. Again one may ask, is the alleged offence serious enough to refuse provision of the IP address? Well you can take a view on this aspect if required but it will amount to taking the role of a judge. If the issue was something like a political battle between an activist and a Government, may be this approach is justified. In the current case again it is related to some private defamation dispute and no larger interests of the society are involved.
If all international ISPs take a view to block Indian investigators from doing their duty, it would hurt Indian interests in running a responsible Cyber Society. Hence a little give and take (I am only referring to provision of IP address in non political cases) may perhaps be OK.
In summary, it is very easy to get little Indian cyber cops to write letters like the ones you got.
I mean, a few thousand rupiees does it.
Naavi, in justifying Indian Police, you have erred.
You said — “In the current case again it is related to some private defamation dispute and no larger interests of the society are involved.”
Exactly right.
Yes! It is a private defamation dispute between two parties. The State has no business in establishing or maintaining reputation of private parties. It is simply wrong for Police to get involved in this, on either side. No larger interests of society are involved.
There is no business for Indian Police to be getting involved in this. They should know their jurisdiction and their limits and operate within it, or else be prepared to be exposed and face the consequences of light being shined on them.
Comment on Indian Police,be civil
I donot understand what you mean when Police should not get involved in investigation of private disputes.
Then who else should be involved?
It is the duty of the police to uphold law and there is every right for any citizen of India to seek the Police help when his rights are trampled with.
As regards jurisdiction, I have already pointed out that the correct procedure could be to come through the Interpol.
But one thing we need to appreciate.In this case the Police is not charging the website with any offence. They are only asking for information in the possession of the ISP which is genuinely required in an investigation. By withholding the information, we only encourage misuse of the Internet by irresponsible persons.
As I have indicated earlier, I see justification for such withholding in cases where protection of individual’s rights against state oppression is involved. I donot see such justification in the instant case.
By with holding the information, the website would be contributing to the defamation of another person who may not deserve such a treatment.
Does the offended person not deserve support of the community? Is it only the offender who should get the support?
Re: “Naavi” above.
The problem is that, whether a matter is defamatory or not, is not something Police can judge.
It is a judicial matter. It should go through the Courts first, as they are competent authorities to determine what is defamatory and what is not.
If the Court determines that something is prima facie actionable (possibly defamatory), then and only then should there be a request for IP address.
This is not how it works in India. Police are themselves playing the role of the Court, while “investigating”. If the words are true, they will not be defamatory, and it is the business of the Courts, and not the Police, to establish that.
During the “investigation”, Indian Police send nasty letters like the one Simon received. Clearly another violation.
However, “Naavi” was correct about the hyperlink in your article being wrong. It should be http://www.bloggernews.net/124029
Enjoy the Vindaloo
This report at http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100718/20510110255.shtml which links to your site is interesting. Is BloggerNews still blocked by India ? There is a lot of recent news from India regarding Blackberry offshore servers and so on, like they are cracking down on social media.
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