Praying Jan…

I’d like to add:

Robert Manwill (found dead), Jashon Williams (found dead), Wyatt Thomas Smitsky (found dead),Christopher Barrios Jr. (found dead), Lindsey Baum (sill missing).

Praying and wishing and crying.

-Melissa

Jan, I, too, am praying everyday for these poor innocent ones. What is happening to our society? We all need to keep our eyes and ears open. We need to start meddling in our neighbors, friends and families lives. If we see something with a child, that doesn’t
look right, act on it. Are there signs that we could be aware of that we ignore? What can we do to prevent this from happening to our children. I know that hindsight is 20/20 but we need to become more aware. Not paranoid, just more aware.

I think this 15-year-old girl is evil. She should be tried as an adult and sent away for the rest of her life.

If she is treated as a child, she could be out by the time she is 21, and she will murder again. No doubt about it.

“What did Elizabeth Olten do to Alyssa to make her want to kill?” NOTHING. The Highway Patrol officer who testified at the certification hearing specifically said he asked this murderer if she was provoked in any way and she told him NO. Why are time, money and medical care being wasted on this Bad Seed piece of filth? Are we supposed to feel sorry for her because she is “depressed and anxious”? There are loads of people, including teens, who suffer from depression and anxiety who do not pre-plan and commit cold-blooded murder. She doesn’t deserve any special treatment and she doesn’t deserve to ever walk free among decent people again.

you actually knew this girl? and she never acted weird or said nething to make you worry?

Jan, thanks for the update. I agree with you this should have been avoided because she should have been in a lock down treatment.
I absolutely think she needs to be tried and sentenced as an adult. She needs to be locked up forever, no parole.
CharlotteN, I agree with you she would use anyone for her agenda.
Much like Casey Anthony.

blind, I prefer a distance, she is more than accused she confessed, premeditated, and wrote about it in advance. YES, I would call that EVIL. She is 15 and certainly old enough to consider other lives above her “wanting to know what it feels like to kill”. I didn’t read anywhere that her home life was atrocious, she has been with her grandmother for a number of years. I think it is fine for her to “act out” now, behind bars, where she can’t kill innocent children. I don’t care what her problems are, she did not feel that her life was threatened by Elizabeth, so she did NOT have the right to kill her. JMO

In thinking, I have suffered from depression and anxiety since I was a teenager myself and that was a lot of years ago. Not one second of time did I ever think of hurting anyone nor did I ever think of hurting myself. That is a total cop-out. These afflictions can be fought with councelling and with meds and most certainly can be overcome without killing a person or thing. Depression sometimes comes and goes but the desire to kill has nothing to do with it, again a cop-out and should not even be listened to as an excuse. My childhood years were not the best in the world but guess what, I darn well rose above that too without hurting another person. If I could not speak from experience, I would shut my mouth but I can. All these things caused me to be so protective of my children and to watch for anything not normal. Someone should have seen this evil streak and done something about it long ago.

Dangerous to others. Her You Tube profile would be one good clue that she might be dangerous. I would imagine that if she posted that kind of stuff she had probably talked it also. Posting talk of being buried, claiming your hobby is slicing and killing would be a pretty disturbing clue also. I imagine we will hear more of her dangerous behavior as time goes on.

This girl is just plain POSSESSED!

15 year old on Prozac? How long had she been on Prozac? Isn’t that one of the anti-depressants that has suicidal side-effects?

Watch her defense attorney use this as her defense.

This case is so sad, my heart, thoughts and prayers go out to the Olten family……RIP Elizabeth.

Alyssa has responded due to internal pressures that have their source. Yes, her alleged crime is horrific and justice must take its course but she remains a scared, confused child whose perceptions and value judgments ought to be investigated. She admits to killing for the experience and clearly it wasn’t what she anticipated it to be. She premeditated while also confessing immediately to her crime. Perhaps she wanted to be punished, to feel something, after a life of playing charades with everyone she encountered. It’s easy to condemn her but lest we forget she is still one of our own. Nothing will ever bring Elizabeth back to us. No life sentence, prison rape, public hand wringing will ever bring her family any solace. Alyssa committed a barbarous act and deserves to be duly punished. Still, she too is a creation of genetics and environment and until society learns to intelligently read the signs without jumping to conclusions others will fill the void and these crises will not abate.

blind: I don’t understand your comment that ” Nothing will ever bring Elizabeth back to us.”
Or how that should effect our thinking on this.

From one POV - that’s kind of the point. A 9 year old will never see another day of life. To me that should very very heavily impact the rest of her murderers life.

We were talking here recently about writing a mid-western Parole Board to request that a man who raped and murdered a 9 month old baby and who has spent the past 30 years in jail be denied bail. Lots of us wrote letters begging the parole board to keep him in jail.

Should we have thought “oh, well, baby died long ago; there’s no bringing her back so sure let the guy out of jail” tra la!
I don’t think so.

He took that baby’s WHOLE life away. 30 years in jail does not begin to make up for that nevermind that we do not want someone who did that to walk among us again. IMO same for this killer of little Elizabeth.

I also blame those who stop these psychos from killing themselves. There’s no reason to keep them around to analyze then when they are obviously a danger. They should put them alone in jail with a big knife. Good thing she didn’t get a gun and shoot a dozen schoolkids.

Blind-money: Your pompous pronouncements about how the rest of us should view this case are nothing but annoying blasts of air. We have our opinions, and they are based on the FACTS, including this girl’s many dark internet posts, the details of the crime as testified to by the Highway Patrol officer she confessed to, her admission to a complete lack of provocation, the fact she had supportive grandparents, material comfort and almost daily in-home psychological counseling, and the absolute cold-blooded nature of the crime. Society DESERVES “distance” from dangerous people like her. How would YOU know about her “internal pressures that have their source” (you don’t enlighten us on what the “source” may be)? Your statement she is “a creation of genetics and environment” is unsupported. What “signs” do you think “society” failed to read? At first I thought you were a bleeding heart, but I’ve concluded you are either connected to the case for the defense, or you’re simply an arrogant windbag.

Her father is incarcerated in federal prison for assualt and her mother is a dope addict and she was placed in the care of another family member … clearly there is something wrong in that family tree. She also abused the boys (her brothers) so they are also at risk to be as nutty as she is … and here is the other thing - what messed up set of untested drugs did they have this girl taking - most ‘counseling’ now is done in the form of drugs which are practically UNTESTED on young people ? Viewing her web rantings, self mutilation and attempted suicide I hardly think she presented a ‘normal’ façade to the world … all the more reason to just cut the losses, and get rid of this line of genes from the gene pool. Can anyone come up with one valid reason the DNA from this family should remain available in the human race for further reproduction ?????? Now that this family has a proven psychopathic tendency … do not let them continue on to produce more offspring ! Keep a close watch on those who remain, and lock up the soul-less murderess for life. Depression is not an excuse for anything except perhaps to feel sorry for one’s own self - it is not an excuse to harm others in any way.

Elizabeth’s father and brothers are both serving time in prison as well, believe me she was on her way to becoming another troubled child, I saw the signs.

Alyssa is not getting life in prison, she just needs help. she is not a killer.. you dont know.
Alyssa is a kind, fun loving and intelligent young girl, was active in church stayed out of trouble and got good grades. Alyssa is NOT a sociopath. She suffers from depression, and it seems aquired split-personalities/personalitiy disorder after she was put on anti-depressant meds. I seriously belive those are what lead her to become homicidal because this is totally out of character for her. Alyssa was like any other teen girl she was very loving and a good friend, she just happend to have some problems, she also had some bad family problems that not many other people have.

I love alyssa and will support her no matter what.

l don’t have time to wait for some dark, illminded kid to bring her depression to bear on any one of my siblings and my friend before i do some really drastic to ‘erase her’. l can’t wait for the time to come before i know what to do with such a depressed, disorganised kid.

arrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhh… imma club the living day light outta ya dark, lil’ demonically depressed head…hhhaaarrrggghh.

Ascents: Just be careful that you do not become what you so loathe and fear.

Mary Bell is just an example of someone who was able to enter society after committing horrific deeds that cost two families the lives of their sons, uncles, brothers, etc. She was convicted of manslaughter with diminished responsibility due no doubt to her age (11) at the time of the offenses. Her actions were essentially opportunistic and she didn’t plan them beforehand which makes her case exceedingly different than that of AB. I’m not sure what the penalty in Britain is for manslaughter but it certainly is less than that for murder. So, twelve years doesn’t seem as ridiculous considering the facts of the case.

OK, can I say, to all the “why wasn’t she locked up/institutionalized” questions….

1) In America we do not lock people up for what they MIGHT do, nor do we hospitalize people for years for depression and suicide attempts. If she HAD a history of extreme violence, no doubt she WOULD have been in the juvenile justice system already, but from the information you and I have, she didn’t. She had a history of depression.

It is extremely easy to point fingers, but a couple of facts come into play here. First, the VAST majority of mental hospitals in Missouri, and indeed in the US, are stabilization hospitals. This means they will admit someone only if they are posing a present threat to themselves or others, and will keep them only as long as it takes to assure they are no longer an immediate threat. That generally means no more than a week. In order to be confined to a mental hospital long term, one usually has to actually commit a crime.

This sounds bizarre from the outside, but the fact is it was determined some time ago that simply confining the mentally ill for years at a time just makes them, for lack of a better word, crazier. Outpatient treatment, in most cases, has a MUCH higher success rate. But this brings us to another issue, and that is, what to do with minors.

2) I work at a residential institution for emotionally disturbed teenagers in Missouri. Understand, many of our clients are offenders and we have psychiatric services, this is not Juvie or a mental hospital. And I work in our Lockdown cottage, where the clients with the most extreme behaviors are sent. I have done so for the last 3 years, so if I say I have some insight into The System, I hope you’ll believe me. I have worked with all kinds of kids from alol kinds of backgrounds (although nearly all have abuse and neglect in common), and I guess this makes me view this kid a bit differently. As horrific and bloodcurdling as her crime was, I personally have to wonder what has to happen to a kid to turn them into a 15-year-old who’s capable of slaughtering a 9 year old just to satisfy her curiosity? I’m not trying to say she’s not responsible for what she did, understand…. I’m just saying that she was a victim long before she became a perpetrator.

Additionally, I’ve worked with disturbed kids long enough to know this: you can get no further into a kid’s head than they will let you, and you cannot help someone who refuses to be helped.

On another note, I’ll say it directly: do you have any idea how tight funding, state, federal and private, is for this sort of thing? The answer is “extremely”. DMH, DYS and every other agency involved in cases like this is ridiculously underfunded. And understand, this is in a state that’s considered a MODEL of youth care. My recommendation, if you want to do something to help ensure this doesn’t happen again, let your congressmen know in no uncertain terms that mental health, youth services and education should be top priorities.

And raise your kids right.

Blind - why don’t you send your 2:59 post to Elizabeth’s parents?

ITA, m2c. I am also sick and tired of the mental health card played every time someone decides to do something horrible to another person. That is always the first line of defense. Well, guess what? I am depressed too. I am depressed because our children are being abducted, molested, sold, and murdered at an alarming rate, and all I hear are the bleeding hearts crying about how the suspect suffered growing up, etc. We have become a society of enablers. We have given people excuses as to why they can murder and rape. All they have to say is that they are depressed, or were abused. I call BS. Many people are depressed, beaten, molested, and abused and they do not turn into monsters. When is enough, enough?
What about the victim? What about the victim’s family? What about the hell on earth the victims’ parents suffer every single day with the loss of their child, and misplaced guilt that they should have “known” and protected their child?
This girl is not insane. She PLANNED and carried out this murder on an innocent child. She did not just have a bad day, and decide to take it out on this child. She did not wake up depressed and take her rage out on a bypassing victim. She planned it. She wanted to do it, and she went to a great deal of trouble to carry it out.
To the poster who stated Elizabeth was on her way to being a troubled child as well: There is no guarantee that she would have been troubled. Even if she were, it was her life to live. Alyssa had no right to deny her that life.

I don’t think anyone here’s saying that what Alyssa did was somehow OKAY, or that she shouldn’t be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Also, no one’s downplaying how viciously horrible her crime was.

But seriously. Look at all the stuff that’s come out about this kid and tell me she’s perfectly sane.

Also, before we start going on about how mental health is ALWAYS the first line of defense…. can we actually discuss how that works? In the real world, not the movies? Because in the real world, proving insanity is a serious thing, and getting OUT after it’s been proven is sometimes harder than getting out of jail. And you have a leash on you for the rest of your life.

ITA, Whiskey Mike with your 4:35 and 5:59.

see, the thing is that this is complicated because of her age. Again, I work with kids like her for a living… and I’ll go ahead and say, you’re right, personal responsibility is an uphill battle. But the abuse line, when the rubber meets the road, is more than an excuse. If you’re “raised” by violent, massively drug addicted parents who leave you to your own devices most of the time surrounded by violence, you can’t be expected to come out as a paragon of virtue and good citizenship. And that is not your fault. The whole thing we try to get across at my work is: what your parents did wasn’t your fault, but how you spend the rest of your life IS.

And heck, I’d agree none of us is PERFECTLY sane…. but that wasn’t what I asked. Can you look at Alyssa Bustamante and honestly tell me that yes, this is a sane person? Is “I killed her to see what it felt like”, coming up with that curiosity and then following through with it carefully and meticulously, the product of a sane and healthy mind? Just asking. I won’t argue that she was manipulative and cunning… thing is, that doesn’t mean she’s not also what we in the industry call “nuts”.

You may be right that a lot of what’s come out about her is stuff she has in common with a LOT of people who never hurt anyone. A lot of kids go through a patch that looks a bit like Alyssa. Actually, part of what what I find really odd here is that she DOESN’T have a long history of violence. But anyway, tell me….. “these people” that you used to feel sorry for?

M2C: Whether youth offenders go on to adult corrections is, I think, decided when they start aging out, and with the nature of the offense in mind.

And as someone who works side by side with a lot of mental health professionals… yeah, you get some bad ones, and yeah probably a few who have bigger problems than their patients, but in my experience they usually don’t last long. And they rarely if ever are the sole decision makers on something like discharging someone… that’s a decision that’s made over time by a whole group of people. I’m kinda curious what your view of “shrinks” is based on, but yeah, I would agree that the stipulations I mentioned are fair.

Also Elias, if you carry your sanity argument far enough then about 90% of murders are committed by ‘insane’ people because sane, healthy minds do not plan murders and the only ’sane’ people who murder are ones who do it in self defense or cause accidental death (ie manslaughter). This is why I think the insanity defense should be illegal. It is pointless if we as a society do agree that cold blooded planning of a murder is not sane behavior … then most murderers would simply be confined to mental institutions and have a chance to act out their problems on others who are mentally unwell and yet not murderous. I think we as a society can agree that once someone has crossed the line of thinking pre-meditated murder is OK, it is to me quite irrelevant if they can be rehabilitated. I just do not think this is something anyone should get a second chance on or that we as a society should ‘invest’ in.

If you say she is insane, all the more reason for sterilization of her and the parents she had who abused her to start with, and to lock her up forever. What is the point really of rehabilitation of someone like this ? So that they can get out and later work at a McDonalds or sell shoes somewhere and be ‘productive’ even though they have purposefully and willingly chosen to snuff out the life of someone else for no reason whatsoever ?

No one has answered my call to defend the need for the human race to continue on the DNA that her family offers us.

Euro, I agree with most of what you said BUT saying parents should have training and a licenses before they can have children is too much. Parents have been successfully having families without the government controlling that for many years. My husband & I have raised 2 sons who are fine young men and I wouldn’t have wanted anyone or government “training” me how to do that. Why should responsible parents have to conform to such as that because of someone else’s problems?

Elias,

Thank you for providing some necessary facts about the reality of mental institutions and their capacity to treat those in need.

I also appreciate that you point out that kids who wind up in the “system” have most likely been abused or neglected. AB has lived in a “stable” environment for half her life. But, what about before? With a felon for a father and a mother with her own legal troubles one can’t imagine a particularly healthy environment to raise a child. Of course this doesn’t excuse her because nearly all battered, bruised and broken kids do not commit first degree murder. But, why did she, then? Our best minds should be using this case to try and figure out if it is possible to understand why certain kids under specific conditions decide to kill another human being (or 30). No doubt we’ll never locate the “kill” gene and will never be able to eradicate cold blooded murder any time soon. But we should care that any thirteen year old girl resorts to attempting suicide or cutting as a way out. Forget AB for a moment. There are many teenagers like her. The goal is to reach them in a way that they accept as honest and understanding. A serious problem is that these kids are routinely lied to by every adult figure in their lives. They trust no one in authority. And if the circumstances line up in just the right sequence, they kill.

Elias, I am all for rehab. Through the years my husband & I have helped a number of kids get in rehab centers and have also taken troubled kids into our own home. I am all for any child getting the help they need and normally I lean towards being in the child’s court.
I am talking about young or old that commit murder, premeditated against an innocent person and any adult that rapes a child. I do not believe they should ever be given a 2nd chance to live in the free world. Hope that clarified more what I meant. I don’t expect you to agree with me. I can agree to disagree, too. Thanks, Treece

Treece and Elias- my second and third paragraphs above were meant for Elias. Sorry!

Treece: I would, broadly, tend to agree. I asked because people tend to get a little hot about these things and it’s best to make sure we’re clear with each other

M2C: I can understand the impression, and I’ve run into a few less than stellar ones myself… but of course, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And sadly, sometimes people who’re normally excellent just make the wrong decision. It’s one of those jobs where nobody ever hears about you if you’re doing your job well :-p

Which really applies to a lot of things, as you mentioned… bloodsausage sells, I’m afraid.

Elias, I am well aware of the history. I just think the idea is worth bringing back for the exact crimes I mentioned and for the exact reasons I mentioned.

I think rehab is possible and great for people who have not crossed that line, but once they have, we have no use for them in our society anymore. I am with Treece on that. Too many people in the world.

And to Atlas - go away little wussy troll. Or I will boot you in the face. You might care a little more when you have to carry your jaw around in your hand.

Oh, and Eurokitten: A kindly intended word of caution. When they get down to deciding about this they may want to include people who’ve shown violent tendencies in which case your saying “Or I will boot you in the face. You might care a little more when you have to carry your jaw around in your hand” could get you on The List!

Little Nevaeh’s mother really has a piss-poor radar when it comes to “friends”. She lets a registered sex offender watch her daughter unsupervised and considers him like a second father to her wee one. This isn’t tragedy, this is high comedy! Of course the death of the child is reprehensible as all such deaths are. But, my god, who sits tight with sex offenders anyhow? Who says, “yeah, some of my closest friends are sexual predators and one of them is giving my five year old daughter a sponge bath right now. Oh, he’s not going to touch it. He’s going to want to desperately but I think he’s learned his lesson and he’s going to be strong enough to suppress that incredibly pressing urge.”

Eurokitten - Why are you refering to people’s offspring as “disgusting scum” ? Children don’t choose who they are born to. You can start making the world a better place by keeping those nasty comments to yourself.

The type of crimes people commit are not, or for the most part, inherited. In this case, it has more to do with childhood or upbrining.

Here is some info for you:

Antisocial behavior develops and is shaped in the context of coercive social interactions within the family, community, and educational environment. It is also influenced by the child’s temperament and irritability.

Prenatal care, a safe and secure family and social environment, early bonding with an emotionally mature and healthy parent, role models for prosocial behaviors, non-coercive methods of parenting, and early intervention when problems first appear are all excellent means of assuring development of prosocial behaviors and reducing and extinguishing antisocial behaviors in children.

Yes Alyssa’s parents were negligent, her gparents took her in a few yrs ago, she was happy with her gparents and they took care of her but sadly they couldn’t undo what was done.
Alyssa is a social, funny, nice, typical teen. although at times she was not well, she slit her wrists.
When asked about her scars, alyssa would laugh it off “it’s whatever” she would say.

No, alyssa struggls with depression. She thought of hanging her self at the age of 11, she overdosed on tylonal and pain killers.. Does this sound like someone in the right state of mind?

i believe alyssa has no serious medical condition. on nancy grace they showed pictures she put on her facebook, myspace,twitter page, and youtube account and said just judging on these pictures you can tell that there is obviously something wrong with her, but they are wrong. i know that just about every other kid who has a myspace and is 14 to 17 has pictures that look just like hers, probably even worse ones. alyssa was obviously reaching out for attention. i mean if she was truly depressed she would be online all the time she would be in her room most likely cutting herself and being unresponsive to any outside force as if she lost a loved one. i understand she had a bad history but she had food shelter and clothes which automatically make her luckier the 75% of the world today. many people have worse histories than she does but they are not considered mental or depressed based on what they wanna do with their life. alyssa probably liked the adrenaline rush of it all. the same with doing drugs, going to theme parks, or watching horror movies. we all have a vice. a medical condition is just a cop out excuse for” i got nothing, she deserves to go to jail, but im a lawyer and i cant loose this case”. its the thrill of the fight and money as well.
to me alyssa is living her own dream and im happy for her. she did exactly what she wanted to do and probably knew the consequences if things were to go wrong and she faced them. she obviously thought hard because there was a grave dug in the woods with elizabeths name written all over it so this premeditated murder was planned long before commited.
to sum it up alyssas lawyers are making excuses for her when they shouldnt alyssa should be tried as an adult and serve a proper sentence. and to the parents of elizabeth, i am sorry your daughter is gone now but to be truly honest she is in a better place now where she can never be hurt and she is smiling down on you knowing that you are fighting for her so keep your faith in god as long as it makes you happy and know that elizabeth is safe now and out of harms way forever.

regardless of whether she has a deep problem or not, that is not for us to ASSUME. opinions are fine but when you start assuming things and pointing fingers when you have never met the girl nor are you a doctor, your just making yourself look like a fool. no i am not excusing her for the crime, it is horrendous. calling her a horrible evil monster, filth, waste, etc.. it really makes YOU look like a horrible person yourself. she’s human and also a child,yes people, 15 year olds are still children, like it or not, there are people like that out there. all we can do is grieve for the lost child, cause bashing this young child really does no good for anyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t4qu1FCWks

laydeeday: um first of all how would you know i am not a doctor or know her. so really arent you being the one making assumptions. i do believe this girl has no serious issue. on nancy grace they said you could tell she was crazy by the pictures on her myspace youtube facebook and twitter when really there are thousands of other kids out there who take photos just like that. and mental illness is a common excuse lawyers use to get there client out of jail or juvenial hall. it was used for a teacher who had sex with her students. it was used for a spaceman who stalked her lover and had intentions of murder, and its used now. just think if u had a daughter and she was murdered how enraged you would be if her killer got off on a claim of mental illness. this girl was not ill. she knew exactly what she was doing and im happy for her that she got to accomplish her dream but now she has to take full consiquences and so do her lawyers.

I am a mental health therapist and it is always sad when young people resort to homicide. Clearly her upbringing influenced her. Her father was in prison for assault. Her mother is a drug addict and abandoned her daughter. When I read she was lead into the court room by her grandmother I already knew this story. It changes a lot of things when a kid has these early experiences of parental rejection. She has done a horrible thing. She is also very disturbed. Her suicide attempt is a sign of self-hatred not only depression. Attachment problems between a parent and child often times contribute to sociopathy.

Most of you guys can easily say “she’s evil” or “she’d better die” or s.th. else.
I know, what she did is unforgivable and actually was evil. But she is still a child. A depressed child. She’s seriously ill. It would be better to treat her, and I mean REALLY treat her in a Mental Hospital and not to pump her with such dangerous drugs like Prozac. I’d love to really help her. I feel as sorry for her like I do for the family of little Elizabeth.
Alyssa is a victim of our society.
I wonder what you’d say, if one of YOUR children would do something like Alyssa…would you like to see them death? You double-moraled idiots.
My best wishes to Elizabeth’ family.

I was unlucky to spend time in jail with this person and I didn’t know it was actually her the whole time till I got out. I was in there which was only a week but to know of her and to actually be around her and hearing the story I would have asked to be placed in a different cell then to be with her…Things about her were quite quiet and she never caused any problems but I do know that I hope she gets what is coming to her when Elizabeth had just started her life she didn’t deserve to have her done that to her. Will always keep Elizabeth in my heart.