Comments on: Were “Sweat Lodge” Deaths Caused by Too Much Heat?

By: Jay Rau

Jay Rau — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:19:31 +0000

Our prayers go out to those who suffered and their families. Sweat lodges are a very important part of my sobriety and serrnity so i pray for all who attend lodges. May they all be as safe as the one I attend.
http://www.soberliving.com/blog/2009/08/11/sweating-in-sobriety-by-jay-rau

By: kokum

kokum — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:34:00 +0000

I have participated in many sweat lodge ceremonies, conducted by different individuals and served by many different doormen. The cost? - an offering of tobacco. The results? - increasing spiritual, mental, and emotional growth within a community of people who respect the ceremonies and rituals involved. An enriched life with guidance from the grandmothers and grandfathers always readily at hand, as long as I ask.
Mr. Ray, the doorkeeper and all who set up this travesty have shown the greatest disrespect to ancient teachings. Yet, if they offered tobacco to a true sweat lodge keeper with genuine humility, they would be able to have a true experience.
To all the participants, I would like to say continue your search. But start with a heartfelt offer of tobacco to the grandfathers and a simple request - show me.

By: colleen

colleen — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:19:12 +0000

Kirby had lived in Baja California for the last 10 years and was very aclimatized to HOT!! This is so sad……….we miss her.

By: Saunas, Hot Tubs, and Steam Rooms

Saunas, Hot Tubs, and Steam Rooms — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:34:32 +0000

Using a sauna, or “sweat lodge”, can be an intensely therapeutic experience, when done properly.

Excess heat, however, especially when combined with dehydration can be very, very dangerous. This is why people who are consuming alcohol are discouraged from using a sauna, steam room, or hot tub.

It is also what makes the claims (especially from those new infrared sauna manufacturers) of losing weight in a sauna so concerning. Any weight lost in a sauna is only water weight, and can quickly lead to life threatening dehydration.

Saunas are great, many people swear by them, but they need to be used with caution and care. Drink a lot of fluids, limit your bathing time, and if you feel ill, at all, leave the sauna immediately!

By: ghosthorse

ghosthorse — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 04:27:18 +0000

This is to bad . I have issue with someone charging high dollar for spiritual experience, and then being irresponsible with lives and purpose. You need to respect the elements of the ceremony.

By: Jacklinger

Jacklinger — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:30:09 +0000

Sweat lodges are a safer version of sniffing gas. Both make you confused, euphoric, and ill, but the gas usually kills you and the sweat lodge usually doesn’t. It’s very sad what happened to those people.

By: kahipa

kahipa — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:57:33 +0000

Never challenge the grandfathers (the stones) they will beat you every time! . It clearly shows that this ceremony was designed to challenge the heat, the rocks and the fire. This voilates all teachings regarding the black lodge ceremony. You go to pray and to get close to mother earth. It teaches you many things that life is hard and it’s the little things in life that make you happy. It humbles you! Sweats are not made to challenge each other or the grandfathers. When you do that I was told someone will get hurt and in this case many did and some died whoever ran this sweat many bad things will happen. Thats how these things work. And the doorman as well. I feel for these folks the sweat is no place for experiments or whatever the goal was. I’ve never seen such a big lodge before and that in itself shows to be whoever built it did not get permission to build it or maybe they did. I can’t see any elder saying yeah looks good nice and big world record for the biggest lodge ever. And then to charge money for this ceremony. This tragedy does not suprise me one bit. Who in the hell ran this sweat? Who in the hell was at the door? I sweat at least once a week for many years and cannot understand this. Ya’ll did’nt know what hell you were doing. Just plain stupidity. It’s a native ceremony. You can’t just build one cause you like what it does. You need input from an elder or a family rep. that offer these things they’ll tell you what to do and what not to do and if it’s ok that we use their ceremony. they’ll let you borrow it but you’ll have to follow their rules. PLus it takes years before you can run one. Jezz crazy man just crazy.

By: Maxfusion

Maxfusion — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 02:06:31 +0000

Anony, I flew for a small FBO in cottonwood. I’ve flown hundreds of liberal moon bats, and “like I’m all” types to the Sedona Airport. I’ve heard in flight conversations that would stagger the reasonable mind. Sedona is a playground for the crystal worshipers, and other intellectual luminaries of that ilk.

By: Unacceptable!

Unacceptable! — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:03:54 +0000

From the way it appears, aside from the fact that this guy is very potentially uber rich and with Oprah promoting his self help book, the man may have very well violated AIRFA law. (American Indian Religious Freedom Act)

Not to forget mention a few other items of interest, such as, possible legal charges including wrongful death, neglect, violating Native American Indian itellectual rights, group property rights, exploiting cultural values and endangering cultural survival.
I could go on.

Wonder if he will ever be a guest on Larry King Live?…again.

PATHETIC!

By: anony

anony — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:25:03 +0000

Maxfusion said,in October 12th, 2009 at 9:50 am

Hey Max. Do you have substantial evidence that “silly little liberals” but not conservatives were the participants? Don’t blindly make comments like yours and think that you are so on target with your comments.

By: arco55

arco55 — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:36:27 +0000

Oh, please - must there be a troll on every blog?? Sure, we all know there are no self-absorbed “conservatives” (hahahaha)

Ray’s whole agenda is about “creating wealth” — spirituality is only a marketing tool, not unlike the Osteens, etc. Greedy charlatans are only liberals or conservatives if it helps them fleece the vulnerable.

By: Maxfusion

Maxfusion — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:50:50 +0000

Nothing to see here folks, just keep moving, just more foolishness by the self absorbed. I wonder what percentage of the participants are conservatives? Hey honey, let’s go pop $18,000 to suffocate. Silly little liberals.

By: Rob

Rob — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:37:25 +0000

To expand on what Rosy above said, in between rounds participants are usually offered water and the doors are opened to allow the lodge to cool off. When you have a structure as large as this one, any cool air is not going to reach the center and I doubt time was taken to provide water to 50+ people. Witness reports state 8 rounds were done instead of 4.

More importantly, it sounds as if Ray was attempting to sell a vision quest (hanblecha) which is actually a solitary venture, not a group experience to be sold for $10,000.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:32:55 +0000

I live in Arizona and on a local station, they interviewed a Native American that said that anyone that has to pay someone for the Native American Lodge experience has bypassed the sacred intentions of the rite. Reportedly, these people paid large sums of money to the man who put this experience together.

By: Rosy

Rosy — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:36:17 +0000

Very good points. I have done many sweat lodges and the one thing I would add is that a properly done lodge is opened up in between every round (which there are four of). The lodge door and often the back flap are opened to allow cooler, fresh air into the lodge for 10-15 minutes so the heat is not the same high temperature throughout the whole time. This really helps a lot with preventing heat stroke.

By: DHE

DHE — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:21:09 +0000

Sedona isn’t really in the hot desert part of Arizona, though. Just a quibble with your otherwise thoughtful article.