You are right, you did come in AFTER the announcement was made, that there was proof positive with this case. Based on an email. Oh it was all very coded and double 07 like. When you came in, you inquired about what was all the happy dancing for and you were told in the aforementioned manner. At which time you began asking to be emailed the “evidence” so you could see it to. You were told it would all be revealed soon enough. At which point you said something to the effect of, ok you would wait but you would join in and celebrate with the others. I am almost positive that is what transpired. However if I am wrong, I will gladly eliminate you from that situation and apologize for my bad memory.

I work with police and they get false reports all the time even about sexual abuse. I can see both sides. I can see how much harm it can cause everyone. I can’t see how pulling a child out of a home based on this is okay. I guess that’s why they have not done that.

It’s wrong for you to call a man a pedophile when he has not been convicted. You’re opinion is slanderous I suppose.

I’m not sure pulling the child out of the home without substantial evidence is a good thing. I won’t rush to judgement and decide she is abused so we should demand her removed from what may be a safe enviroment. Its not the law, I work with the law. Children remain in homes all the time when investigations are done.

I have said all I can say to you, if you wanna run blindly then go forth. Because you do not need proof to call a man a pedophile.

And the toot your horn thing was not even directed at anyone. I was saying that I will not be celebrating that I was right BECAUSE its not who is right and wrong.. its about a little girl.

I just wish I had answers to my questions so I could make an informed decision.

Do you know how you are coming across? As someone who’s willing to accuse a father of being a pedophile without any proof.

The video was not done by professionals so I can see how others may not think it shows any abuse. I agree a child can be coached.

You don’t need proof Karen but still get to call the father a pedophile? How can you do that?

The poster was addressing Karen and stated:
Unlike you I won’t TOOT MY HORN.

Excuse me, poster, whom I will not identify. Have you forgotten the euphoric explosion of celebration going on in the main blog? You know the night another blogger got “PROOF” this was a scam! The constant pages for Jan to check her email. The bloggers all doing the happy dances, this went on for over 2 hours. Could have lasted longer, I got bored and left.

Now as I am honestly cranky and not willing to let known lies stand as truth, I am leaving now. I don’t want to fight, even when I’m cranky and I have enough sense to know, I am the one bickering now.

I am going to ask you all whether you believe or not just hold back your arguments. Ask questions if you wish but don’t slam us because we believe in it. And for those of you that believe as we do, hold back on the lashing out also. This does nothing but make this more complicated. We are all adults here, I think. Why can’t we act like it.

I have a temper and it does irritate me when I know the only reason someone comes in here to cause us trouble, but that is my right as an editor for BNN. We just want peace. PLEASE

It was stated when this first came to Bnn there were “harsh words” on “both sides”. Karen and I were discussing this case, and was told we needed to stay on topic. I put my phone number up so Karen could call me so we could continue to discuss without angering the “long time regulars”. Still THEY would not let it go. Karen was belittled and badgered continuously.

I had become a regular on Bnn and got along well everyone, if I had any enemies I was not aware of it. The only thing I did that day was entertain the idea this may be true. I was the next target. We were called scammers, con artists, liars and well most know the names that were followed by our names.

One poster came up with the idea that we were NOT who were coming on now as, we had been there 6 months earlier and this was a scam we had been planning for 6 months! The name calling and attacks went on.

After hours of this behavior from the long time regulars, we both struck back. I think Karen posted a couple of rude posts and I know I posted 2 and then we were done. That is it, that was the extent of our bickering!

I have issued the challenge this is now the 4th time, I challenge ANYONE to show me even ONE post that was rude, nasty, hateful or argumentative prior to the hours of attacks on us.

The long time regulars STILL try to engage and argue with us. We do our best to ignore it. But you keep slapping somebody in the face, you will eventually get slapped back. Yes one sentence in my hateful post was below the belt but unlike the long time regulars, I did not identify any ONE person. While I on the other hand was compared to Cindy Anthony.

I know the long time regulars think they are innocent in all this, but I invite all of you to go back and read the comments. I have done it, and I think if you do it, you will have a rude awakening.

The next victim of the long time regulars was one of their own, mb. Then it was Jan, I’m sorry but if some people are so blind they can’t even see what when on here and the real reason people were banned, their biggest problem is denial.

Jan asked us to keep Aaliyah on the Aaliyah site and we HAVE done that. So they come here to try and fight. This is absurd, and it does not bode well for people who are advocates for children. I am a firm believer in actions are far more telling then words. The acions of some are telling me, some are determined to keep this fight going, and if an innocent child is lost in the process, well OH WELL!!!

Get the facts, don’t blindly acuse.

You can help this child without having to take sides.

Where did you see or hear that the mother lost custody or even shared custody due to refusing to co-parent?

I’ve never heard that yet. That’s new to me.

I’m not at all suggesting that you don’t know what you are talking about. I’m curious where that information came from

Cindy Anthony sure does a lot of defending though.

WOULD YOU GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT TO 50/50 CUSTODY WHILE CO-PARENTING TO HAVE 2 HOURS VISITATION WITH A CHILD YOU SWEAR IS BEING ABUSED?

So we can NOT be accused of only reporting one side if only ONE side will talk to us. We gave them their chance and they refused. You can bet on one thing though, if I was being accused of this I would be out there defending myself and not be hiding.

Also you have no proof the man is a pedophile. Any more than I do that he is not.

I can show you a movie with a flying pig but that does not prove it is true.

Maybe in your fight to save this child you could in fact be playing to the wrong player.

One of the documents was a report from the visitation supervisor. These visits have to be monitored and a written report of the events had to be filed with the courts. They CLEARLY stated that they were convinced that SOMETHING was going on with this child. We read the official report.

You will have to ask a family member or Connie for all of your questions. But because Connie can go to jail for speaking to anyone on the internet (posting anything on the internet) I’m guessing you’ll have to ask her family.

They are BOTH Aaliyah’s parents and they should be both be respected until you got a huge heap of evidence to prove other wise.

Its bad enough to be stuck between two parents, been there done that with my parents divorce but to have the whole world in on it would blow my mind being this child.

Thanks Val, I am passionate for the truth whatever it is but I do have to ask questions before I dive in.

Again I will stress that whatever the truth MAY be it will come out and I hope the truth sets Aaliyah free to be safe with whichever parent is more fit.

For those familiar with the Michael Jackson case that also got international publicity, the entire community was out for blood and they still couldn’t nail him. This is such a hard thing to prove unless you are in the room with them with multiple witnesses. Even the documented evidence can be spun from both sides. I feel terrible for the child and hope that Jan and Simon can reveal documentation that will stand up in court.

The way we understand it is that the original restraining order was for her to remove the video and the pictures of the baby from the internet and was ordered to take down her MySpace page. Then someone else not related to Connie started the web site saveaaliyah.com.

After the media got involved an addition was added to the restraining order forbidding her to speak to the media. We have complied with this gag order even though we think it is stupid and it is clearly a violation to her civil rights.

This is how we understand this to be.

It was never our intention to make more out of this than it is. We didn’t start this to cause any grief to anyone. But we are convinced that there is something that is wrong. We view this as a win/win situation. If we find it is a hoax we’ll go on a rampage to get charges laid, if not we will hopefully save this child’s life.

Everyone may not agree with us but all we are doing is asking that everyone gives us a chance. When we get all the facts together we will lay them down and let all of you decide for yourselves if you believe or not.

I read the correspondence between you and C~A and i think that you ultimately created that situation and made it blow up bigger than it should of.

Can you clarify something for us and hopefully put this to rest?

On the restraining order - was it initially just restraining Connie from posting her allegations on the internet when she initially posted the video some time ago and thus this is why her MySpace account had to be taken down? Then a friend of the family created the saveaaliyah site?

Then later, and after Connie spoke with Simon and you (and also after her interview with the local newspaper), is when the restraining order was expanded to also include her not speaking with the media?

If I don’t have the timing of all this correct, please correct me. I see this being questioned a lot and maybe you can give the timeline and details of the restraining order so that people quit misunderstanding what she was lawfully able and not able to do and when.

So IF they have talked to Connie since this gag order was placed she has not violated it. As for us, we don’t talk to Connie, we did before the gag order was placed on her but after we talk to the family.

A very smart friend of mine has said this and look at the proof you have been talking to Connie :

“You and AnneA have both, recently tried to back track and generate posts to deny communication between the two of you and the mother. You did the “back step” in a post on 5/16 @ 8:10 a.m.. Your counterpart AnneA did a similar “back step” in a post on 5/13 @ 6:40 p.m.. You two apparently think these clever little dance moves on your part will avoid a violation of a gag order after the two of you, along with the editors of the site, have stated to anyone who can read how many times you have “talked to the mother”

Let me enlighten you on something. According to a post that YOU, KarenCCC, put up on thread 120689 on 4/30 @ 4:06 p.m……”this is a portion of the email I received from Connie on the 27th:……ON HER COURT DATE 1 WEEK AGO, SHE DID GET A GAG ORDER.” In other words there was a gag order issued on or abouts 4/20. According to the CPC web site on 5/6…”The restraining order and gag order was continued”.

THERE HAS BEEN A GAG ORDER ON THE MOTHER EACH AND EVERY TIME YOU HAVE TALKED TO THE HER.”

So not only do you act rude to others but you lie to them as well.

I will just continue banning him

Butters, if you actually had something interesting to say or some intelligent question to ask, then manybe I wouldn’t have said “aren’t you freaking listening?” I believe that you, too, are only in here to make trouble. I have every right to say what I want to say. If you take it as being rude, then so be it. I am not attacking anyone.

Well Karen that is def. your opinion, real shame you don’t even know who I am. I am sorry I am asking obvious questions that anyone would have asked… and will continue to ask.. I sincerely hope this child will be safe or is safe. And I find it a shame that others have been banned for the same attitude that you have yet because you talk to Connie or are on the “good” side.. you continue to post here.. AND I have the right to disagree with Jan and Simon.. free speech. And many people have voiced their opinions about not feeling safe to say how they feel and have gone else where.. so continue to bag on those who do not believe.. I do not care…I do care about seeing good people being afraid to be on here anymore.

Baiting other posters with insinuations and sarcasm is quite another.

People can be on either side of this issue and should be able to discuss it respectfully with one another. The problems start when one side or the other begins talking down to either or worse simply because of their point of view on it. It’s happened on this blog with both sides.

I also fail to see how the newness of a poster or the long standing status of a poster gives any more or less weight to what they have to say.

A lot of criticism has gone Karen’s way because she was new to this site when she brought this subject to the attention of this site and its bloggers. Then a different fairly new poster AnneA right away got involved. Both were then accused of being in collusion with one another to bring this “hoax” to BNN. Simply because there weren’t seasoned posters.

I myself am a new poster although not a new reader on this blog. Based on how they were attacked early on I was very hesitant to post anything I had to say. I have to wonder how many others out there are just as hesitant.

There seems to be constant questions about where’s the evidence that this is true? Well..for those asking that and not getting any satisfaction - where’s the evidence that it’s not? As far as what has been released for public consumption, there isn’t any of that any more than there is evidence that it is at this point.

Posters stating that “there have been investigations and then closed so there is nothing to this” is one thing…where’s the proof of these investigations and closed files? Do any of the naysayers have those? No, you don’t. Not any more than the people on here who believe there is something to these allegations have any proof to back up their belief.

That’s the whole purpose of why so many are calling for an investigation and protecting this little girl from which ever parent is the culprit.

A piece of advice, tune into Bubba’s, we might just know something you don’t know!

Most of the ant supporters didn’t seem to have read any of the evidence in that case.

This case seems different to me because so far there is a lack of evidence available to us readers that either proves or disproves it. Jan and Simon and others are in the process of investigating this. I think it’s their (and others’) right to do that without being badgered about not having all the answers yet. They will publish what they find (no matter where the chips fall) when they decide to. They are not under a gag order, neither is the radio show etc - only the mother is as far as I know.

I will also stick up for the right of people to totally believe this is happening - based on the video or based on nothing - whatever their reasoning is. That’s their right too.

I only hope that someone can get to the bottom of this - and fix it if it needs fixing - so we can all rest easy about it.

Every other reason aside - this particular issue is important to Jan and Simon and a lot of other people and I believe those of us who enjoy blogging here should have the common decency (manners?) to respect that.

The only thing I can add to that is that whether people believe it to be true or fear that it is or just think it may be, they don’t want to walk away until they know for sure.
I don’t see anything wrong with that. I’d rather find out that it’s not true than not make the effort and come to find out one day that it was true.

So much for equality right? So much for the freedom of speech?

Everyone needs to respect everyone… if you don’t people who don’t believe in this or on the fence to be rude then don’t throw stones back its that simple.

I think he asking what people on the fence and skeptics would ask why is everyone virtually following this based on a video recorded by the mother not a professional like a Doctor.. so other than the video no real documentation.

People can trust and believe you guys but it isn’t wrong of people to ask questions either.

OK most people in here know Simon and I and most people trust us. We can assure you that neither of us have been a part of this, therefore we can not now nor ever be accused of trying to pull a scam on anyone.

You have NO IDEA what Simon and I have as proof on this. You say we don’t have one single’s doctor’s report or one single professional backing anything we have been told here, but how do you know that. Simon and I DO HAVE in our possession some legal documents that we are choosing not to publish as of yet. We have not walked into this case blinded. YES we DO believe that this child is being molested.

We do not like releasing anything in here until it is cleared and checked out. We are not here to spread rumors or destroy lives. We only want the truth.

I heard through the grapevine that some others do not believe any of this which is their rigth but I know what documents I have seen and read so those that choose to not believe that is fine but Please don’t come in here and call Simon and I liars. We are working really hard to get to the bottom of this regarding of which way it ends up. PLEASE let us do our job.