Again, and I really do not want to repeat myself. I have explained why Annie is the bully in this. Never said Joan was perfect. I have to move on now. Feel free to comment but know I cannot spend time here any longer. Thanks for the great discussion and insight. Have a good week everyone

As for her spoiled daughter, Melissa was a total brat. She whined and complained most of the time, and generally had a way higher opinion of herself than was ever deserved. She fancied herself an expert at whatever she did — far better than everyone else. And even as she complained how everyone was talking behind her back, she acted far worse. It’s no wonder that she didn’t get along with most of the other contestants. When she was asked by Donald Trump if she was embarrassed about her meltdown, she tried to gloss over it. But Donald called her on the carpet nonetheless and cried bullshit on that. She was just awful, and has probably done a lot to sabatoge whatever career she has left.

‘As such’….and ‘as much’….are two different meanings.

And even under your ‘as much’ interpretation…it still makes Joan bully.

Anyway, have a good day! Thanks for your feedback!

Awesome.

Trump’s children wouldn’t behave the way Joan and Melissa did.

Trying to justify Joan’s bullying behavior doesn’t negate it.

As for the designer, thanks for clearing that up. Annie was telling the truth and thats good to know. I also suspected the show had something to do with them pulling out. It made it more “interesting”. Again, I was basing my opinion on what I saw on the show.

Yes, Joan stomped off the set when Melissa was fired. However, Joan was pissed off and we all react when upset and say things we should not say. Joan was mad because Melissa was the odd girl out, felt that way and at the end of the day was fired. Again, I do not know whether or not Annie and Brandi plotted against Melissa. However, Annie being project manager, should NOT have iced Melissa out. PERIOD! Joan even told Annie and Brandi she was angry by their behavior.

As for the snippets shared, thanks folks but again, I base this completely on what I saw on the show. Not anything afterwards or elsewhere.

People are confused as to who the bully was because in our culture, a bully is someone who is loud and yells. Is brutally honest and yeah, reacts to situations. People are not educated on the adult bully as we have barely touched upon this problem in the workplace. Adult bullies are more low key, quiet, always have a sidekick, wants to be around those that can be controlled, talks to people in a threatning manner like Annie did on the phone, excludes others, manipulates, condescends…..everything I saw Annie do on the show. Joan did not exhibit any of this. THIS is why I am basing my conclusions on this. Yes, bullies can yell and verbally abuse but they usually do that away from others. Joan made her points in front of everyone including Trump. Joan wanted folks to know what Annie was as she kept it all out of the board room. Listen to the comments Tom and Dennis were making about her during the task. Did you hear Joans team do that about her? Yeah, Melissa was on her team but so was Clint and Hershel.

Again, I do not know either woman and I know all kinds of stuff is written about them on here and who said what blah blah…..I am basing my opinion strictly on the behavior of the show. A lot of what Joan was reacting to was Annies crap. This is classic in the workplace; the bully gets them so riled up and they explode while the bully sits there all innocent. Talk to people who have dealt with this in the workplace…..

Anyway, thanks to all of you for responding and sharing info. My goal in this was to expose the real bully and from what I saw, that was Annie. Have a good day……

Just because she did it out in open doesn’t make it better. She had a tantrum every time she thought Annie made a good point and it revealed Joan in a light I truly didn’t expect.

Joan is the one who lost this battle. She revealed her bigotry on people she considers it safe to abuse. Not only that she projected her shame onto Annie.

Joan worked in Vegas when the mob ran it….not Annie. Bob Newhart stated on one of those ‘History Channel’ shows about the mob and Vegas. He said that they took care of ‘the talent’ and made sure they had a great time while performing. While now the corporations are running Vegas and this type of stuff doesn’t happen on the same level as it did then. The time when Joan hit Vegas.

Joan is a liar and a hypocrite. She used classism to attack someone and said things to Annie that millions of gay people hear from family. That they are beneath them and not worthy of the respect deserved everyone.

Joan said that same type of thing to someone she considered herself upbove in the entertainment industry. Joan is a bully too drawing imaginary lines in the sand to prove she is better than Annie. When in fact that imaginary line defines her past, taking money from the mob.

I lost respect for Joan watching that show. And Joan was the only person who stood to lose acting the way she did. While some have claimed that Annie was in it for Annie. Well the tv show that Joan has been offered, clearly reveals that Joan was in it for herself. As well as her comments in the NYPost. She did it to put herself on the map with the network again. The one that passed over her for Johnny Carson’s spot. Charity was a second thought. Geez…she could barely keep her eyes interested visiting that man dying of AIDS. He wasn’t exactly a boring character either.

Just goes to show how effective true bullies are.

Myself, I would rather have someone be open and clear about who they were. Annie never tried to pretend she was something other than herself. That’s much easier to deal with.

But someone who is sneaky and spiteful is the most dangerous type of “bully”. Joan is a phony with an agenda steeped in insecurity. Her humour comes from a disturbing black place.

Very ugly behaviour on her part.

But I did see Joan as a “Gucci little piggy”

I saw Joan as your typical whiny, self-centred, manipulative bully. She played the poor me card. She walked off the show for attention! While most of us call that quitting, she took advantage and used it to return to play out the silly drama with Annie.
She doesn’t walk the talk. Her words are mean and most of them mean nothing.

By the way, these are the worst kind of bullies. People like Joan who cry and rant and throw hissy fits, always claiming they are the victim…watch out. They are nasty bullies. Passive aggressive and cruel. Joan was judged by Donald Trump to be the “best” bully. I think he was just more sympathetic to her charity.

Annie was ripped off. She really won in terms of brains and work ethic but Joan weaseled her way through with lies and deceit and her motive was revenge, not charity!

She just wanted to make everything “ok again” for her unlikeable daughter. That was her only motive.

JMO

Here’s a snippet of an interview with the event planner: http://news-briefs.ew.com/2009/05/celebrity-appre.html

Among other statements, he said that the show manipulated the situation because he wasn’t allowed to provide ideas.

I’m sending the link along because I think that it may interest you and your readers. Its not to provide a counter agrument for your position.

Breathe. We’re only chatting about a reality show.

-Annie Duke raising money for yet another charity:
http://news.bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view.bg?articleid=1171671&srvc=home&position=also

-Joan Rivers doing rounds of interviews refusing to apologize for calling comparing Annie to Hitler:
http://weblogs.redeyechicago.com/showpatrol/2009/05/celebrity-apprentice-joan-rivers-annie-duke.html

-PS the event designer who quits makes it clear that he quit because of Joan, which does make Joan a liar as well:
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2009/05/11/2009-05-11_apprentice_designer_calls_joan_rivers_monster.html

I thought Joan- who walked off the show let’s not forget, and her talent-free daughter were absolutely dreadful.

Your article totally overstates the case for Joan against Annie. I disagree.

It was quite clear that the designer quit the show when Annie and Brande were asked to leave the premises. It’s true that we don’t know what happened btwn Annie and the designer behind closed doors, but it did seem that the event planner was done.

All that said, I can’t stand how Annie played the game. She reminded me of an abusive husband who acts like a jerk but in front of the judge changes his tune. In turn, the battered woman reacts strongly and is labeled the troublemaker.

I have read all the comments on your blog today and I made the first response. I am still in shock by your post and your responses.
You state that it disturbed you that Annie was cunning (as stated in my first post). She was playing a game to win - in order to win a game or to get ahead in business - it is a good thing to have certain characteristics and be cunning, smart, plan, think ahead, find out what your competition is up to etc.

So in your book it is not ok to be cunning etc while playing a game with the goal of winning and yet it is acceptable to behave in such an immature, vulgar, mean, nasty, lying, shouting, arrogant, despicable manner. In the business world this behavior would not have been tolerated at all.

I am shocked that you think Joan’s behavior was in any form acceptable. As far as I am concerned anyone defending Joan’s behavior needs help.

I actually think the way Joan and Melissa played the game ( that now seems was fixed with the Donald from the beginning) was much more manipulative than Annie could ever be accused of and therefore the ultimate set up and the serious bullying came from Joan, Donald and Melissa.

Annie handle herself with grace and treated everyone with respect, including that little twit, Melissa.

Don’t be so quick to give Joan kudos for being assertive and bold, either. She was clearly scared to cross Clint Black, even going so far as to have Jesse act as the middle man numerous times during the Tuna Commercial Project. There was nothing assertive or bold about her that week.

To state that Joan put down a “bully” is laughable and preposterous, considering that Joan Rivers, herself, was the bully every week. Does Donald think that makes a good business person? Her conduct was completely unprofessional and bordered on libelous.

Annie was never able to explain herself without either Joan or Donald cutting her off. She was the true professional, though, in spite of Joan’s attempts to get her riled and Donald’s attempts to blow off her concerns.

Joan clearly lied about the designer, whom we all watched quit right in the middle of a phonecall with Joan. For her to then come out and call herself “honourable,” after all the one-way mudslinging and outright lies, is also laughable.

It’s obvious Donald Trump wanted Joan to emerge the winner, because he certainly was incapable of or unwilling to be objective where a friend of his was concerned. Perhaps he needs to keep his friends out of such contests in the future. I’ve been reading reactions to Joan’s win all day and people are upset with the result. I’d estimate that about 80 percent feel the competition was rigged. I’m in agreement with that and will probably never watch the Celebrity Apprentice again.

Again, Joan and Melissa were vocal and yes, Melissa was mad when fired. However, I do not think it was the firing that angered Melissa as much as the odd girl out thing. She knew when they were in there that it would be blamed on her. She even said it before they even went into the board room. Sorry but there is no excuse for odd girl out stuff especially with women in their 40’s. Made Annie and Brandi look like they were in the 5th grade, IMO. Then on this task, Dennis and Tom were frozen out.

MikiT, you took the words right out of my keyboard. You get exactly what I am trying to say here. These bullies are so “cool” while they anger others and its the others that usually wind up looking all “bad and unstable” because they speak out like Joan did. I think also Joan was mad because Melissa was odd girl outted. A mom will protect her child and a child will stick by her mother. This situation is very typical in workplace scenarios. This is why I say that people are getting confused and think Joan was the bully. Its those “silent ones” that shoot the arrows.

Hey Duff, I appreciate what you said as well. However, please go back and read my comments. I did mention that Joan should not have called Annie a Nazi and went too far. As for Piers, I agree with you about him. He was horrible! I did not agree with his being picked at all.

No, Dennis nor Tom spoke up about Annie and I wished they had. I saw where Dennis was standing behind Annie and actually called her on her cell phone at one point. They felt ignored and left out and he made a statement by doing that. I saw how she treated Tom with the video considering his expertise IS in video. Of course, after she saw what he did, she was all “its okay Tom”. If she did not trust him then why did she assign him to that particular activity? I got the feeling Tom and Dennis were annoyed as well by the actions and comments they made. However, by board room time, I think they were just ready for it to be over with. Thats the impression I got. So instead of speaking up, they just “yeah, okay”. This is bystander behavior and I discourage it completely.

I think a lot of people are seeing Joan as the bully because she was the verbal one. She outright said it where Annie did not and just sat there, smiled, took credit and kept it all away from Trump but took it to her cell and everywhere else. Plus, she had her constant sidekick in Brandi as bullies NEVER work alone. As a result of this, people want to see Joan in that light. Again, a person can be honest and not a bully. Joan was not intentionally trying to mess with her. Joan saw right through her and let HER know it and in front of the person that needed to know it and that was Trump. Annie was the one who manipulated, excluded, backstabbed, cursed and made demands in the phone, put others down and again, even though Joan was harsh, I did not see her threaten anyone like that. This is what I want people to understand when reading this. These adult bullies are secretive and try to make the others look bad. This is why I feel Joan was not doing the bullying but Annie was.

I am grateful some folks are getting this. THIS IS BULLYING in adults! They are not always upfront in their behavior and I think this is why people are getting it twisted here. Adult bullies are too crafty and slick to go that route. Their actions is completely relational and not so much confrontational. Joan spoke her mind and she brought it to Annie and not anyone else. Well, of course Trump as he needed to know what was going on and certainly Annie was not going to tell him.

Thank goodness people are seeing what I saw! People are defending Annie online and again, in my opinion, I believe they see Joan speak out and think she is the bully.

First, Annie is a game player, and played the game. I think I remember her being alluded to by Joane as a Nazi?

Next, when Piers Morgan, wasn’t he ruthless and it was all about money?

Not sure I was watching the same show, seemed Joane made it pretty personal when things didn’t go her way.

I am confused by the seemingly double-standard here…

It’s just tv entertainment, I know. But you do get caught up in the drama…especially when it mirrors real life scenarios. I too have worked along side people like Annie in the workforce and their behavior was a thorn in my side (and the side of many a colleague). Regrettably, bullies don’t tend to go down without a fight…a dirty fight that can put one’s job in peril.

It’s ironic that a reality tv show provided the vindication that often times does not play out in real life.

Joan most definitely deserved the win…on so many levels. And the bully deserved to be put in her place. Of course, not without her thinking for about 2 seconds that she actually was the winner. Sweet revenge. I love it when the bad guy goes down. And I love it when the good guy is a winner. Especially if that winner is a 75 year old woman who likely has never waged a bet…but walked away with all the chips.

Nice.

No, Joan did not bring in as much money as Annie. That is true. Annie is a good fundraiser which I am sure goes along with her line of work. But at the end of the day, I saw where Joans heart was lying in comparison to Annies.

Again, nobody was perfect in this. There were no “angels” in this. However, it was things like this that made me question Annies behavior. These are women in their 40’s (I know Melissa is as she is my age and Annie is a couple of years older. Not sure how old Brandee is) and behavior like this makes them look really stupid. They are mothers for goodness sakes. I got the feeling they left Melissa out intentionally. Whether or not they were plotting, I do not know. What was shown on the television was not plotting but them shutting her out was wrong on many levels. NOT a good way to manage and do business IMO.

They weren’t talking about her or plotting against in her that episode and when she lost, she came across like a foul-mouthed moron.

Glad Annie lost, but honestly Annie would have stomped Melissa every which way but loose.

Joan was no angel, I get that. Some of her comments were out of line. However, she said them once and to Annie, not everyone BUT Annie. Thats why she was so angry. She saw Annie as a manipulator and I saw the same thing.

A lot of people are defending Annie online I know. Again, I saw Joan and saw she was no angel and said her comments were out of line. However, she played for charity and I had the feeling Annie played for Annie. A HUGE difference.