And, in the final signal that you have lost the argument, you turn to the personal attack.

That should demonstrate to all readers that the facts are on my side, and that you are just another shrill and ignorant ideologue.

Educate yourself.

Paydayloanfacts.org

One other thing the critics who cry “usury” always miss is how much we pay for other types of short term credit. A $100 payday advance with $15 fee is 391% APR.; in comparison, $100 bounced check with $55.59 NSF/merchant fee is 1449% APR; $100 credit card balance with $37 late fee is 965% APR; a $100 utility bill with $46.16 late/reconnect fees is 1203% APR; a $100 off-shore Internet payday advance with $25 fee is 651.79% APR; $29 overdraft protection fee on $100 is 755%.

When he asks what difference it makes it makes let me him know that it makes him look like an ever bigger fool for thinking that we do not see through his greed.

ps. NO need to “argue” - this is his blog so he will always assume the final word just like Rush, Hannity, and the rest of the shrill who want America to fail. And clearly, he is an excellent dodge.

Facts are facts.

If you want to argue a case based on its merits, then do so.

http://ncsl.org/programs/banking/paydaylend-intro.htm

So there goes your usury argument, although it was a nice try.

Re: Slavery. I already told you that this is a False Analogy. To be specific: http://www.onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm

To prove a False Analogy, “Identify the two objects or events being compared and the property which both are said to possess. Show that the two objects are different in a way which will affect whether they both have that property.”

You said, “slavery should never be ended because there was a need, a market, and a fair price set in markets around the world. ”

Payday loans: Need? Yes. Market? Yes. Fair price? Yes.

That is where you analogy ends.

Payday loans: Provide a benefit to both parties of the transaction. The consumer gets desired short-term credit. The Lender makes a profit.
Slavery: The Slaveowner gets cheap labor. But the slave, well, it’s obvious this isn’t beneficial to him in any way.

Payday loans: A moral and ethical method of extending credit.
Slavery: Not moral or ethical in any way.

Payday loans: Benefits society by providing a service to those in need.
Slavery: Direct cause of millions of murders and displacement, while also being a direct cause of the Civil War.

I could go on and on, but I’ve sufficiently dismantled your argument.

According to Article 19, Section 13 of the Arkansas Constitution, the cap on interest rates for consumers is 17 percent.

ALABAMA, the legal rate of interest is 6%; the general usury limit is
8%. The judgment rate is 12%.

ALASKA, the legal rate of interest is 10.5%; the general usury limit
is more than 5% above the Federal Reserve interest rate on the day
the loan was made.

ARIZONA
, the legal rate of interest is 10%.

ARKANSAS, the legal rate of interest is 6%; for non-consumers the
usury limit is 5% above the Federal Reserve’s interest rate; for
consumers the general usury limit is 17%. Judgments bear interest at
the rate of 10% per annum, or the lawful agreed upon rate, whichever
is greater.

CALIFORNIA, the legal rate of interest is 10% for consumers; the
general usury limit for non-consumers is more than 5% greater than
the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco’s rate.

COLORADO, the legal rate of interest is 8%; the general usury limit
is 45%. The maximum rates to consumers is 12% per annum.

CONNECTICUT, the legal rate of interest is 8%; the general usury rate
is 12%. In civil suits where interest is allowed, it is allowed at
10%.

DELAWARE, the legal rate of interest is 5% over the Federal Reserve
rate.

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, the legal rate of interest is 6%; the general
usury limit is in excess of 24%.

FLORIDA, the legal rate of interest is 12%; the general usury limit
is 18%. On loans above $ 500,000 the maximum rate is 25%.

GEORGIA, the legal rate of interest is 7%; On loans below $ 3,000 the
usury limit is 16%. On loans above $ 3,000, the limit appears to be
5% per month. As to loans below $ 250,000 the interest rate must be
specified in simple interest and in writing.

HAWAII, the legal rate of interest is 10%. The usury limit for
consumer transactions is 12%.

IDAHO, the legal rate of interest is 12%. Judgments bear interest at
the rate of 5% above the U.S. Treasury Securities rate.

ILLINOIS, the legal rate of interest is 5%. The general usury limit
is 9%. The judgment rate is 9%.

INDIANA, the legal rate of interest is 10%. Presently there is no
usury limit; however, legislation is pending to establish limits. The
judgment rate is also 10%.

IOWA, the legal rate of interest is 10%. In general consumer
transactions are governed at a maximum rate of 12%.

KANSAS, the legal rate of interest is 10%; the general usury limit is
15%. Judgments bear interest at 4% above the federal discount rate.
On consumer transactions, the maximum rate of interest for the first
$ 1,000 is 18%, above $ 1,000, 14.45%.

KENTUCKY, the legal rate of interest is 8%; the general usury limit
is more than 4% greater than the Federal Reserve rate or 19%,
whichever is less. On loans above $ 15,000 there is no limit.
Judgments bear interest at the rate of 12% compounded yearly, or at
such rate as is set by the Court.

LOUISIANA, the legal rate of interest is one point over the average
prime rate, not to exceed 14% nor be less than 7%. Usury limit for
individuals is 12%, there is no limit for corporations. (As warned,
you cannot evade the limit by forming a corporation when the loan is
actually to an individual.)

MAINE, the legal rate of interest is 6%. Judgments below $ 30,000
bear 15%, otherwise they bear interest at the 52 week average
discount rate for T-Bills, plus 4%.

MARYLAND, the legal rate of interest is 6%; the general usury limit
is 24%. There are many nuances and exceptions to this law. Judgments
bear interest at the rate of 10%.

MASSACHUSETTS, the legal rate of interest is 6%; the general usury
rate is 20%. Judgments bear interest at either 12% or 18% depending
on whether the court finds that a defense was frivolous.

MICHIGAN, the legal rate of interest is 5%; the general usury limit
is 7%. Judgments bear interest at the rate of 1% above the five year
T-note rate.

MINNESOTA, the legal rate of interest is 6%. The judgment rate is the
“secondary market yield” for one year T-Bills. Usury limit is 8%.

MISSISSIPPI, the legal rate of interest is 9%; the general usury
limit is more than 10%, or more than 5% above the federal reserve
rate. There is no usury limit on commercial loans above $ 5,000. The
judgment rate is 9% or a rate legally agreed upon in the underlying
obligation.

MISSOURI, the legal and judgment rate of interest is 9%.
Corporations do not have a usury defense. (Remember that a
corporation set up for the purpose of loaning money to an individual
will violate the usury laws.)

MONTANA, the legal rate of interest is 10%; the general usury limit
is above 6% greater than New York City banks’ prime rate. Judgments
bear interest at the rate of 10% per annum.

NEBRASKA, the legal rate of interest is 6%; the general usury limit
is 16%. Accounts bear interest at the rate of 12%. Judgments bear
interest at the rate of 1% above a bond yield equivalent to T-bill
auction price.

NEVADA, the legal rate of interest is 12%; there is no usury limit.

NEW HAMPSHIRE, the legal rate of interest is 10%; there is no general
usury rate.

NEW JERSEY, the legal rate of interest is 6%; the general usury limit
is 30% for individuals, 50% for corporations. There are a number of
exceptions to this law.

NEW MEXICO, the legal rate of interest is 15%. Judgment rate is fixed
by the Court.

NEW YORK, the legal rate of interest is 9%; the general usury limit
is 16%.

NORTH CAROLINA, the legal interest rate and the general usury limit
is 8%. However, there is a provision for a variable rate, which is
16% or the T-Bill rate for non-competitive T-Bills. Above $ 25,000
there is no express limit. However, the law providing for 8% is still
on the books- be careful and see a lawyer!

NORTH DAKOTA, the legal rate of interest is 6%; the general usury
limit is 5 1/2% above the six-month treasury bill interest rate. The
judgment rate is the contract rate or 12%, whichever is less. A late
payment charge of 1 3/4% per month may be charged to commercial
accounts that are overdue provided that the charge is revealed prior
to the account being opened and that the terms were less than thirty
days, that is, that the account terms were net 30 or less.

OKLAHOMA, the legal rate of interest is 6%. Consumer loans may not
exceed 10% unless the person is licensed to make consumer loans.
Maximum rate on non-consumer loans is 45%. The judgment rate is the
T-Bill rate plus 4%.

OREGON, the legal rate is 9%, the judgment rate is 9% or the contract
rate, if lawful, whichever is higher. The general usury rate for
loans below $ 50,000 is 12% or 5% above the discount rate for
commercial paper.

PENNSYLVANIA, the legal rate of interest is 6%, and this is the
general usury limit for loans below $ 50,000, except for: loans with
a lien on non-residential real estate; loans to corporations; loans
that have no collateral above $ 35,000. Judgments bear interest at
the legal rate. It is criminal usury to charge more than 25%.

PUERTO RICO, the legal rate of interest is 6%; all other rates are
set by the Finance Board of Office of Commissioner of Financial
Institutions. Judgments bear interest at the same rate as the
underlying debt.

RHODE ISLAND, the legal rate of interest and judgment rate is 12%.
The general usury limit is 21% or the interest rate charged for T-
Bills plus 9%.

SOUTH CAROLINA, the legal rate of interest is 8.75%, and judgments
bear interest at the rate of 14%. Subject to federal criminal laws
against loan sharking there is no general usury limit for non-
consumer transactions. The South Carolina Consumer Protection code
provides regulations for maximum rates of interest for consumer
transactions. Please consult with counsel for the latest rates.

SOUTH DAKOTA, the legal rate of interest is 15%, judgments bear
interest at the rate of 12%. There is no other usury limit. There are
certain limitations on consumer loans below $ 5,000.00.

TENNESSEE, the legal rate and judgment rate of interest is 10%. The
general usury limit is 24%, or four points above the average prime
loan rate, WHICHEVER IS LESS.

TEXAS, the legal rate of interest is 6%. Interest does not begin
until 30 days after an account was due. The judgment rate of interest
is 18% or the rate in the contract, whichever is less. There are a
number of specific ceilings for different types of loans, please see
counsel for information.

UTAH, the legal rate of interest is 10%. Judgments bear interest at
the rate of 12%, or a lawfully agreed upon rate. There are floating
rates prescribed for consumer transactions. Please see counsel for
information.

VERMONT, the legal rate of interest and judgment rate of interest is
12%. On retail installment contracts the maximum rate is 18% on the
first $ 500, 15% above $ 500. The general usury limit is 12%.

VIRGINIA, the legal rate of interest is 8%. Judgments bear interest
at the rate of 8%, or the lawful contract rate. Corporations and
business loans do not have a usury limit, and loans over $ 5,000 for
“business” or “investment” purposes are also exempt from usury laws.
Consumer loans are regulated and have multiple rates.

WASHINGTON, the legal rate is 12%. The general usury limit is 12%, or
four points above the average T-Bill rate for the past 26 weeks,
whichever is greater. (The maximum rate is announced by the State
Treasurer.) Judgments bear interest at the rate of 12% or the lawful
contract rate, whichever is higher.

WEST VIRGINIA, the legal rate of interest is 6%. The maximum
“contractual” rate is 8%; Commissioner of Banking issues rates for
real estate loans, and, may establish maximum general usury limit
based on market rates.

WISCONSIN, the legal rate of interest is 5%. There are a myriad of
rates for different type of loans. There is no general usury limit
for corporations. Note that a loan to an individual, even if a
corporation is formed, will violate the law. The judgment rate of
interest is 12%, except for mortgage foreclosures, where the rate
will be the lawful contract rate.

WYOMING, the legal rate and judgment rate of interest is 10%. If a
contract provides for a lesser rate, the judgment rate is the lesser
of 10% and the contract rate.

Larry’s premise is that payday loan transactions take place by the tens of thousands every month. Why? Because they make perfect sense for the parties involved!

When payday loan customers look at the spectrum of financial products available to them, the payday loan product often makes sense.

Yes, some payday loan customers abuse them; just like credit cards. And true, there are payday loan operators, like wall street, bankers, mortgage companies and more, who abuse their customers.

In the end, I still favor as many choices as possible with CLEAR and FULL disclosure of fees, rates, and terms for ALL of us

You make the classic high school mistake of the false analogy.
The “argument” you apply, if you can call it that, makes an analogy where none exists. This is also called The Straw Man.

Usefulness of payday loans, especially considering the alternatives?

http://www.bloggernews.net/120218

Have a read, if you dare. You hate payday loans, and have provided NO argument whatsoever as to why, provide no solutions for what happens when they get banned (you appear to want to punish consumers by forcing them to pay more for short term credit).

You are just another ideologue who has never, ever had a need for short term credit, has never set foot in a payday store, never talked to customers, never talked to owners, and forms opinions based on fantasy, as opposed to reality.

Educate thyself.

paydayloanfacts.org

Lauwrence Meyers can pick on some little girl and a pastor in West Virginia through a blog - big frickin’ deal. And it appears that they does not even work there any more.

Based on your arguments, if you can call them that, I guess you think that slavery should never be ended because there was a need, a market, and a fair price set in markets around the world. Is that what want to say?

ps - please GASP some more in your sophomoric reply so that I can imagine what it will be like as payday lenders whimper away from Ohio.

The way a debate works is that I make an argument and then you counter it, using logic, evidence, and — GASP — facts.

Just like all payday loan opponents, when the facts are presented, the only argument you reply with is…nothing.

I particularly like the way that he personalizes the issues he has with Ms. Rasmussen, who by the way I can not find on any Web sites related to payday lending - as if she exists. Maybe he was just sorry that she would not return his advances - he does indicate that she stopped calling him.

The days of unregulated credit markets, like the payday lenders have enjoyed, are over. The duck is cooked.