Hi, Ron …

My understanding about the Berg complaint is that it went to Souter. Souter refused to grant an injunction stopping the election, but issued, as you say, the Writ of Centiorari, which is granted only with the consent of four Supreme Court justices. Had the Supreme Court not believed that (1) Berg has the right to bring the suit, (2) there is cause to believe that Berg’s complaint has merit *on the facts* or it would not issue the writ. Further, the issuance of the Writ is evidence they believe, Surrick’s decision notwithstanding, that Berg has the right as an American citizen to demand the proof of a candidate’s eligibility under Constitutional Law.

Your summary judgment of my motives notwithstanding (don’t worry about it … as you can see from this article people have practically had to get in line on that one lately[s]), I was shocked to find out that the natural son of an American mother could somehow NOT be an American citizen, no matter where in this world he is born. I thought one’s parents were the deciding factor, not where in the world they were born, and I should certainly have thought that one would have been enough.

But apparently not so. McCain was born in Panama to two American parents. The DNC tried to bring the case — apparently unaware of Obama’s vulnerability on this issue — that McCain’s birth in Panama prevented his being an American citizen. McCain immediately released his birth certificate. But the one he presented was a U.S. birth certificate, not a “certificate of live birth” of the type Obama posted on his website, with half of it blocked out, including the certification number.

When legal authorities evaluated McCain’s birth certificate, all they could come up with is that McCain is *probably* (!!!!) an American citizen! They couldn’t say for sure that he was! But the DNC didn’t try to stop the election and declare him ineligible, and the DNC didn’t actually bring suit about it, perhaps because they were finding out about a looming problem of their own.

Now … in Hawaii until 1972, someone could be born abroad, come into Hawaii with a foreign birth certificate and then register a “certificate of live birth” USING the foreign birth certificate. Because it was Constitutionally illegal and conflicted with federal law, the practice was stopped then. And this is how the question then arose: Those who live in Hawaii say that what is posted on Obama’s website is not a registration of birth in the United States — and it certainly isn’t the raised seal original with the certification numbers, etc., intact. They say it is a Certificate of Live Birth of the kind that pertains to a foreign birth registered upon entry into Hawaii prior to including the years from 1919 to 1972. When the governor of Hawaii “verified” that she had a vault copy of Obama’s birth certificate on file in Hawaii, she DECLINED TO VERIFY THAT IT WAS A CERTIFICATE OF U.S., NOT FOREIGN, BIRTH. Honestly, if these people would just produce it, all this pussyfooting around would stop and we could get down to being happy about the fact he was elected.

Now, my abiding hope here is that the Supreme Court will go with what is MY understanding of the law: that the child of a United States citizen is a United States citizen. After all, a child born in the United States to parents who are in the country illegally is still a citizen of the United States. And the United States allows dual citizenship with some countries, but not with others. For example, my son was going to be born in France, but would have been a citizen of the United States. The State Department assured me he would have dual citizenship.

What I think is true is that this law is very confused and thoroughly untested in these kinds of waters.

My question remains: Why would he not simply provide the raised-seal vault copy of this birth certificate and not take this risk with the country? He has taken an awful risk with us. If there were nothing to hide, my feeling is, he would not have refused to provide it. I also want to know why he has sealed his Harvard and Columbia University records. McCain’s life, including all the demerits he got at the Naval Academy, is an open book. So what’s being hidden here and why has there been this stonewalling?

Now, perhaps the Supreme Court will deny hearing this case at all after December 1st, but the details of the Writ of Certiorari are not given on the Supreme Court website you reference, nor do you or I know what is contained in the brief they will be required to file. Various lawyers round about believe the Writ contains the overt demand for the original raised-seal vault copy of the birth certificate, which has yet to be published anywhere, and it is my understanding that the Supreme Court cannot and will not ever publish the demands of a specific Writ of Certiorari as it is privileged. HOWEVER, when I have gone back to find the demand published overtly, I can’t find it. So perhaps you are right that it is not demanded and all the legalese on the internet is bogus and that I have inadvertently said something that is untrue. I will see if I can get BNN to excise that part so that I don’t mislead anybody.

However, the fact that the petition of Philip Berg to stop the election was denied, does not mean that the Supreme Court has thrown the case out. The Supreme Court, by granting a Writ of Certiorari that the Obama and DNC lawyers have to respond to *before election certification occurs on December 15th* means that they ARE taking the case, because the Supreme Court does not issue a Writ of Certiorari unless it has approved the PETITION for such. See http://www.techlawjournal.com/glossary/legal/certiorari.htm

And I think you may have read something wrong. The Supreme Court gets thousands of PETITIONS for Writs of Certiorari every year, and GRANTS the Writ very sparingly. In this case they have granted the Writ, and that is the problem for Obama now. He has to clear this hurdle before the election can be certified. This is why I wish he had been willing to order the release of the raised seal vault copy of an original birth certificate listing the certification number, birth physician, hospital, etc. It would have meant we didn’t have to go through this. All this would be over. Why won’t he do that?

Perhaps he is hoping that the fact that the State of Hawaii would have led his mother to BELIEVE he was a U.S. citizen, and that the State of Hawaii actually may have believed it was CONFERRING U.S. citizenship, will save him. And it may save him. Because if his mother was led to believe that he was being MADE a U.S. citizen by the registration of live birth that she affected once she got back, and the State of Hawaii was basically granting it based on HER American citizenship, then I think he has a case.

Look, I am completely satisfied that Obama won this election, and handily so we have no 2000 election to go through again with pregnant chads and lies. Even if the court decides Obama is not an American citizen, I will think it absolutely WRONG that an American mother like myself could get trapped in a foreign country, wind up having a baby there, and then have the United States deny that he’s a citizen. In fact, in our planned birth of our son in Paris, it would have happened, but the doctor wouldn’t let me get on the plane because advanced-staged pregnancies tend to react to lowered cabin pressure with a brain freak-out that puts the woman into labor at about 20,000 feet. That is, according to people in Kenya, what happened to Barack Obama’s mom. She tried to get on the plane, and they just wouldn’t let her on.

Now perhaps the Supreme Court will find a good reason — and any good one would do me just fine! — to refuse to hear this case. Frankly, I hope so. As I said before, it is going to be unbearable if this election is thrown on account of this, so I hope they DO find a good reason, or that Obama’s folks turn over something that is really convincing. There are now more than 15 other pending cases about this in as many states, all trying to stop the certification of the election. I think it’s )(*^&Eed and a real nasty thing to try to do now on the part of Republicans. So I hope Obama’s folks come up with the vault copy and show it to the Supremes. I don’t care at this point whether they ever show it to anybody else or not. I just want it settled in a way that turns out positively for Obama and this country.

But I am really angry at him that he pushed it, that he stonewalled, that he wouldn’t be truthful and forthcoming, and that the MSM wouldn’t cover it. I am also angry that the government of Kenya slammed a gag order on his whole family and the hospital on the coast south of Mombassa where everybody in his family says that he was born.

He has an American mother. That should have been enough. If the Courts verify that he was born in Kenya and an American is NOT enough, God help us all, and I mean that.

My guess is this: Obama, in his wildest dreams, never, ever thought he had this problem. The only wrinkle in my defense of him is that he may have been registered at Columbia or Harvard as a Kenyan or as having Indonesian citizenship. In fact, he did have Indonesian citizenship. And at the time, the U.S. and Indonesia both had exclusionary laws with each other: no dual citizenship, as it was denied by BOTH countries. So upon re-entering the country, Obama would have had to be *repatriated* and apparently he never was. So, if he had citizenship, he lost it when he moved to Indonesia. If he was never “repatriated” or if he registered at Harvard or Columbia as other than a U.S. citizen or as a dual citizen, there is big, big trouble here.

But I hope not. But Berg isn’t giving up. He’s at the National Press Club on the 17th, and Andy Martin has the hearing granted by Hawaii Supreme Court on the 18th. Then there are the other cases.

That said, it will be a very, very bad thing if they succeed. I think that Obama’s mother was not aware of any of this. Likely Obama only realized the problem after McCain’s came up, which may be why it was dropped like a hot potato. Obama probably thought that he was never a citizen of Kenya, or a dual citizen, given he had an American mother. She would likely have thought he had citizenship, too. It would have been easy to believe that he had dual citizenship with Indonesia and the USA. And if he has ever had a U.S. passport, somebody at the passport office thought that Certificate of Live Birth was enough, so why wouldn’t he? He hasn’t been traveling on a Kenyan passport! And he does have a passport!

But please, Barack, stop this hiding and slouching around business. It makes me very jumpy. I saw this before with Nixon. I saw it with Clinton. I have up to my chin in it from Shrub. Please, just turn it over so we can all relax.

Cheers,
Morgaan

Hi, Ron …

Correction made … and thank you again.

Cheers,
Morgaan

There are quite a few good points brought up here. One very important one that I did not see, is that if Obama is proven to have been born in Kenya, we have been lied to. President Elect Obama and his campaign have been telling us over and over that he was born in Hawaii. If the O-man is proven to be born in Kenya, but still is a legal natural born U.S. citizen, what are the repercussions of the lies we have been fed?

The problem here is that until 1972 Hawaii registered the births of American citizen born abroad in contravention of U.S. federal law. After 1972, they stopped issuing the kinds of “Certificates of Live Birth” that you see listed on Obama’s birth certificate.

Obviously, Obama is a U.S. citizen and traveling on a U.S. passport. So says Hawaii and so says the U.S. State Department.

HOWEVER, with Hawaii so screwed up at the time — and with there being different laws at different times for different states and countries — I think that the Supreme Court will find some way to declare him eligible. The “reasonable doubt” issue here, although it does not really apply to this case, is that nobody can exactly say now what the Founding Fathers meant by “natural born” citizen. It is inconceivable to me, as a mother, that my son could have two American parents, or even one American parent, and be denied the right to run for President because his mother got stuff across some borderline somewhere and wasn’t allowed to board a plane.

I think the US Supreme Court will agree if there is ****any*** possible way for them to do so.

Note this, however: McCain was born in Panama to American parents. Nobody brought suit to stop his candidacy, although some in the DNC flirted with doing so. Probably they didn’t because they suddenly realized that Obama had a worse problem with that — not only the Kenyan thing, but the Indonesian thing, too. So, they didn’t pursue it, because Obama had a better chance of losing a legal challenge than McCain did.

What the legal authorities said in evaluation McCain’s legitimacy is that McCain was *** PROBABLY *** a U.S. citizen and also *** PROBABLY *** eligible to run.

The reason they can’t be sure is that the laws are so ambiguous and states making such vastly different interpretations that nobody is really sure what the hell is going on here.

For my part, my problem with Obama is that he would not let it be dealt with … although I would also support a law against October surprises unless they show real evidence of criminality. The DNC sat on a minor infraction of Bush’s, illegally got from the State of Maine archives, and released it two days before the election. Had they not done that, pregnant chads would have meant nothing, because he would have TROUNCED Gore in the 2000 election. He lost something like 7 points on that.

And if challenges to Obama’s candidacy — the RNC having known about the 1984 Pakistan trip and the Indonesian citizenship MONTHS before this — then it would have been fairer to bring the subject up giving the candidate and the American people enough time to sort it out.

But no, they do it at the last minute. Obama stonewalls. Surrick panicks and bails. The Governor of Hawaii says there is a certified (raised seal) vault of the birth certificate but REFUSES TO SAY IF THAT VAULT COPY INDICATES A FOREIGN BIRTH!!!!

The people utterly screwed on this are the American people, as per usual.

And what I also don’t like is that the DNC did it this way knowing that they would put the Supremes into a situation of ULTIMATE THREAT if they had to say Obama’s election was illegitimate. That’s callous in the extreme.

And … if a Kenyan birth were to have been proved five days before the election, Obama would have lost.

Now, my own hunch is that the State of Hawaii, handling things as it was in those days, probably assured Obama’s mother that he was a full U.S. citizen. But some people say that Obama used to tell people he was born in Kenya. But he would likely NOT have thought that he was any less of a U.S. citizen than you or me. That he subsequently changed his story, rather than bringing this up and having the Supreme Court settle the issue ahead of time may be understandable given the panic that it would have engendered, but it is not less dishonest and no less a dangerous dancing close to an edge over which the American people might still be thrown.

The level of ignorance on this site is amazing. Obama was born in Hawaii. There is no doubt about that except in the minds of conspiracy theorists who in an earlier age would still be doubting the curvature of the earth. And now we hear that Obama is a “Muslim” despite all the evidence that such is not the case. His Christian faith, by the way, does not come through his mother. His Christian faith comes by conviction. His mother was an agnostic. He was raised an agnostic. Later he became a Christian by conviction after witnessing the compassion of Christians for the poor in south Chicago.

I know, of course, that those who wish to believe fairy tales will continue to believe them no matter what evidence is set before them. There still is a flat earth society. Perhaps several people here belong?