St. Johns is a small community north east of Phoenix Arizona that is usually a quiet little place that doesn’t have much crime. The town’s motto is “The Town of Friendly Neighbors†and only exists of 3500 residents.
Wednesday the police department in St. Johns said that an 8 year old boy confessed to shooting his father and another man with a 22 caliber rifle. St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said the child was near the crime scene when the police arrived. The police chief wouldn’t discuss a motive or how the child even got his hands on a firearm to begin with.
The boy had gone to a neighbor’s house and told them that he thought his father was dead. When police got there they found one victim just outside the door and the other was upstairs in a room. The victims have been identified as the boy’s father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39 of San Carlos who is believed to be a boarder renting a room there. The two men were employees with a construction company that had a contract to do work at the Salt River Project plant near St. Johns.
“Who would think an 8 year old kid could kill two adults?†said Melnick on Friday. “This is precedent-setting. We’re going to charge an 8-year old with two counts of homicide.â€
“We haven’t had anything like this in Apache County in my 23-years as a prosecutor,†said County Attorney Criss Candelaria. “We need to figure out what was going on in this boy’s head.†He says the legal issues in this case are murky, that they are compounded by uncertainty about whether the child should remain in detention, be released to a relative or placed as a state ward. “Where do we keep him?†Candelaria said. “It’s obvious there’s going to have to be a lot of evaluation.â€
The boy is being held at the juvenile detention centre and police say he doesn’t have any records of ever being in any kind of trouble with no bad behavior records from school or of any problems at home. His Father had full custody of him and his biological mother had visited him just over the weekend prior to this from Mississippi, but she has returned to Arizona once she was notified of the shootings. His step mother was not home at the time and there are no other children in the family.
The boy now has a defense lawyer, Benjamin Brewer that said police had overreached in questioning his client without representation from a parent or a lawyer, and they had not advised him of his rights.
One has to wonder what could have been going through this child’s head to make him want to kill anyone, let alone his own father. I have a feeling that there is a lot more to this story that will unfold during this investigation that we as the public may never hear about.
Jan Barrett















27 users commented in " Double Murder in Arizona With An 8 Year Old Charged With Homicide "
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Children are not responsible. Adults are responsible for teaching children responsibility. The adults who were in charge of the gun and the child are responsible. They should never have allowed the gun to be in the hands of a child. If the adult who allowed this is not dead, he/she should be charged with murder.
http://ewebsmith.com/parent/knowyourkids.html
So the biological mother returns to her home out of state AFTER the shootings. Way to be their for your kid lady.
This little guy did not wake up one day and just grab a gun for the fun of it.
Something tells me this kid was in trouble with something going on in his home and he put an end to it.
The race of the kid. The ONLY thing I care about!
According to the reports of this tragedy, the parents of the boy were at the very least separated and perhaps divorced and the mother had just visited from out-of-state the weekend prior to this incident. Also, the father had ‘full custody’ of the boy. While fathers are increasingly gaining custody of their young minor childreb, it is still relatively uncommon and far from the norm, and I would definitely want to know what led to that result in this particular instance. Perhaps the father was abusive and mom wasn’t around for protection, and/or mom was unstable herself. In either case. I am sure that more will come to light about both father and mother as the case progresses. It may also be that the child is determined to be suffering from a serious mental illness, in which case I would want to know why school personnel were unable to detect anything unusual about the boy’s mental or emotional condition.
And yes, how was an 8-yr old child able to get possession and use of a .22 rifle and ammunition? This is a tragedy, but one that could have been prevented.
This is just tragic. How sad, I wonder if the mothers prior visit upset the kid, did she blame the dad for her not being there for her son. Kids do need their mothers and maybe the mother placed the blame for her absence on the dad and the boy reacted, he got rid of the thing causing him to be away from his mother. You never know, my heart goes out to everyone involved.
Is there any evidence this boy did it beyond his confession? I’d need to see the video tape of the police interrogation before I believe an 8-year-old shot and killed two men. The boy’s lawyer said the police interrogated him without his mother or a lawyer present.
Did the boy truly confess or did the cops manipulate him into saying what they told him to say? Disgusting to say, it has happened before. in Chicago cops got a 7 and 8 year old to confess to rape and murder after one of these parentless interrogations. Too bad for the cops that the girl had semen on her body, that the boys were physically incapable of producing, and which did not match their dna. Dishonest cops don’t care who they pin a crime on, as long as they can pin it on someone. A little kid looks like an easy confession to them. If they’d had the kid another hour they probably would have gotten him to confess to Kennedy’s assassination, too.
Annabelle, she visited her son in Arizona, went home to Mississippi and when she found out about the shootings she went back to ARIZONA, not her ‘home out of state’. So yes, she was there for her kid.
Lori,
My mistake as the first report I had read it did not state she had returned to Arizona.
Thanks for the info.
The 8 year old knew how to use guns.
His father had consulted with a priest beforehand to get his view on whether he thought it would be ok to teach his son how shoot at that age, as the father was an avid hunter.
Please don’t make assumptions. The father was a friend of mine at one point. Abuse was not an issue. This is a terrible situation that has torn so many of us and confused us beyond explanation. Also, one of you commented that you don’t see how the boy had access to the weapon… you may not be familiar of with small town life so I’m just going to say that guns in this setting are not like guns in a metropolitan location. The mass majority of families hunt every year together. Children are raised with guns as part of their life and are taught from a young age how to use a weapon because they hunt with their families every year. It’s a matter of livelihood not crime. Obviously something went terribly wrong but this young boy was not a “troubled-youth” by social standards. Clearly, we do not yet know what the problem was and clearly there was a problem. All I ask is that you DO NOT make assumptions or jump to conclusion. I have no doubt that the media will do that for all of us.
I don’t know anything about this kid, or about his family life. But I have an idea or two on what drove him to do this…
It seems that on the surface, both of his parents are hard-working. On the surface, both of my parents are hard-working. People of integrity, honesty, et cetera… But perhaps the boy feels differently about his parents. Is he an overachiever? Did his parents encourage him to excel?
As a child, my parents were reliable. They tried to discipline me well. My dad had a bit of a temper problem that no one outside the family knew; you would never guess how demanding and controlling he was of my mother when we first immigrated to America. He still has a temper problem and he’s still stubborn, but it’s not so bad anymore.
I excelled a lot, and my parents worked very hard to support the family. Of course I saw them… My mother especially during my younger years. We were very close, I think. I think… I don’t remember. But I remember crying in the Target store’s parking lot as she went away. I was a bit more than four.
Like I said, I excelled a lot. It became an every day thing. Perhaps people thought that I wouldn’t need encouragement, support, that I should be left to my own devices… I never received recognition after the first few days of school. It seemed to me that I was completely ignored.
Encouragement is crucial to a child’s development; encouragement is a signal that the child is “ok,” that the child is safe; it gives the child a sense of security. A lack of security, and the child will become anxious, have low self-esteem (even contrary to the reality), et cetera. If this lack of security becomes an ongoing thing… Well, for one, the child will probably become extremely sensitive to criticism. I know I was, and still am. Those of you who aren’t like this, consider yourself lucky; every bit of criticism hurts. That feeling of fear, devastation, at the very least feelings of inadequacy… it’s a terrible thing.
And you cling to it.
Sometimes you would remember it… Just remember it. I don’t know why. But you would just remember it. And then you would cry… Has this child every cried for seemingly no reason before? Or has he hidden it well?
Eventually, the child will subconsciously associate people with pain; insecurity, fear is painful. He may have friends; I had friends. I actually had fun with them. I even had fun with my family. But then, I would always remember that little thing that implied that I was “inadequate,” and I would hurt. It would confuse people; one minute you’re hunky-dory, the next you’re outright dissocial.
I’m not saying that the boy tried hard at school like I did, suffer near cardiac arrest like I did, develop premature wrinkles like I did, but… But if it’s what I’m suspecting (and I’m not confident in this either, it’s just a theory), then this boy mistrusted people, and that cynicism reached a breaking point.
Children can feel that much resentment towards their fellow human beings. I know I did… But to what point in my own experience and to what I nearly succeeded in doing I don’t feel I need to share.
I don’t have any credentials in child psychology, or psychology in general for that matter. I am only speaking from experience; I’m only trying to guess what this boy was feeling.
All my sympathies for this lad; I can only imagine how insecure and full of hate he was before he pulled the trigger.
The authorities should really get someone with actual creds to look at him and see if he has any attachment or personality disorders. We can’t change what he did and perhaps that cynicism will always be there, but at the very least he should receive therapy to deal with his insecurities (if he has any), or to just help him in general. Teach him good coping skills…
And of course, he could just be a psychopath.
I’ve heard this family often goes hunting… How wouldn’t it be sad if this desensitization and normalization of personally killing living beings purely for sport actually contributed to this? Though I’m not saying that he feels no remorse over what he has done.
If only problems like this in children were so obvious. Or parents had to get a degree in child psychology before becoming parents. But for now, we just do what we can do.
Truthful~
You are right about making assumptions. (which I have been guilty of as well) This is such a tragic event and just heartbreaking.
I pray for all involved.
This entire discussion and the events surrounding it are completely idiotic. A child of 8 lacks the capacity to understand and appreciate the nature and consequences of his actions and premeditate a murder. Even if he were a genius, he would not have the conceptual ability to form mens rea. That is why EVERY OTHER NATION IN THE WORLD (except a couple of truly strange places) set the minimum age of criminal responsibility at 10, 12, or even 14. The United States is the only so-called civilized nation to set 7 as our minimum age of criminal responsibility, though in some backward states like Florida and Mississippi, children even younger may be charged with crimes that they do not understand.
This kid would have been better off 200 years ago – the prosecution would have had to prove capacity and the kid would have been aquitted. Children have killed others since antiquity. There is nothing adult about killing another human being. But we need to understand the fundamental differences in the way that children think and behave and the way that adults think and behave.
Adults – whether they live in small or large towns – were put on warning years ago that society expects them to secure their weapons and the failure to do so usually results in tragedy, sometimes death, and these days – charges against offending adults.
Finally, children this age are extremely likely to make false confessions. The Ryan Harris case in Chicago comes to mind. The police should never have questioned this child without an attorney present, or at least a guardian present. Why did they need to do this? If the evidence is there, they would have it – they did not need to extract an immediate confession. Any judge with sense would throw out the confession immediately.
While it is possible that this child is sociopathic – organically mentally ill – it is just as likely that he was playing with the gun and did not understand the ramifications of his actions. He also may be taking the rap for someone else. There is a case out west where a boy confessed to a murder that his mother iniated. Could this be a domestic disturbance where a child was used by an adult for nefarious purposes? If an 8 year old is used by an adult in this way, is he responsible at all? NOT!!!!
mental kid needs to go to a mental institute
He just needs a little kentucky lovin is all!
Apparently there’s a lot more to this story then what’s being let out. A 8 yr old boy with no prior behavior issues just doesn’t pick up a gun and kill two people. Something was going on behind closed doors that caused this child to take some drastic measures to protect himself. I’m sure when everything comes out this will all make a clearer picture.
I completely agree with aLawyer, I also think it is far to soon to judge this boy or even entertain the possibility that he could be guilty, -
The only thing in mind he is guilty of, is not being to hold his own, by himself, against adult detectives in an interview.
He found the bodies, is by himself, I think the detectives in this case took complete advantage of his age and obvious fear of everything that had just happened – watching his interview I don’t believe he killed them at all. I think he was trying to tell the detectives whatever they wanted to hear, trying to do what he perceived to be the thing to gain their approval.
The fact that they’re charging him with a pre-meditated murder is absolutely ludicrous, 8 yrs-old don’t have the mental ability to even meet the necessary criteria for anything beyond manslaughter if even that.
The more I read about this the more obscene the whole thing sounds – what is wrong with the Arizono D.A. – is he so hungry for media attention and a promotion to actually bring charges against this poor boy – This D.A. is just pathetic.
1. I have hard time believing an 8 yr could even handle a rifle with any kind of accuracy.
2. His dad was so responsible as to consult with a priest before teaching him about firearms, so you have to believe, that gun wasn’t laying around loaded, so he would have had to have loaded it first.
3. I would like to see, if they put this rifle in front of this boy, if he could load it, cock it and then fire it.
4. The kick back after he fired the 1st time would’ve knocked him down on his butt.
5. So then His dad’s friend just stands their and waits for him to get up to shoot him too?
Come on! This whole thing is just ridiculous.
6. And what about forensics, can’t they tell at what angle these men where shot at, to determine the approximate height of the assailants – did they even wait for those results – and what about gun powder residue.
7. This child is so young, he doesn’t have the necessary mental cognition to form intent or even comprehend the full scope of consequences, or the powers of reasoning to appreciate the finality of his actions – if he did do this (which I truly don’t believe) it would have been from that state of mind like a game, where he could undo it or take it back, or it wouldn’t really even hurt his Dad or his friend.
8. As a parent, if my 8 year old child shot me, from misguided reason or reasoning of his own, or because he was being manipulated by another adult – I certainly would not want to see my child spend one-day in prison, I would blame myself and what to see him get help.
so again, What is wrong with this D.A.! – is he so hungry for media attention, notoriety or a promotion to actually bring charges against this poor boy – This Arizona D.A. is pathetic! Charges should be brought up against him!
I watched this kid’s “confession” and it’s essentially meaningless. He starts out saying one thing and the interrogators lead him into saying something entirely different. Maybe they are getting at the truth, or maybe they’re leading him away from it. You can’t tell.
I have an 8 year-old son and it is *very* easy to get him to say what you want him to say (his older brother is always getting him to “confess” to stuff and he is a 10 year-old, not a trained police interrogator).
I’m not saying this kid didn’t do it. I’m just saying we really have to wait for the direct evidence–the ballistics, impartial adult witnesses who saw or heard stuff, etc.–before we’ll have a clue what’s going on here.
Alawyer…Wow! You said a mouthful, and it was the best post I’ve read anywhere, so far! I totally agree with everything you said. And I remember, very well, the case out West where the boy confessed to murder that his mother initiated. For the life of me, I just can’t imagine and 8 year old child “premeditating” two murders. The is probably much more to this story then we will ever know.
I am outraged at some of the press and comments I have seen. There is no proof that has been presented anywhere, other than this so-called confession, that this boy committed this crime. The only fact we know is that two grown men were murdered and we do not know who did it. Can you imagine what damage has been done to this child if he was NOT the murderer? He has been handcuffed, his ankles shackled and dragged into a courtroom. He was not permitted to attend his father’s funeral. He has a whole country of morons talking about him. At this point he probably doesn’t know if he did it or not, since these adults have convinced him that he did. If they had the right to release this video, I would certainly like to see the videos of the interviews with the Mom and the step mom, too. If it comes out that he is innocent I hope all of his accusers give him the help he is going to need to get over this. God bless and keep this little boy safe.
“givemeabreak”, I totally agree with everything you have said. His Birthday is coming up Dec 29th. I will be sending a card and whatever the juvinelle facility will let me send. I have emailed the governor, the defense lawyer and the prosecution lawyer. Everyone needs to get invloved with this. its an outrage. I would love to know if they did any forensics on any of the other adults like the step mother, the grandmother, the grandfather, and the wife of the second victim. or if this just closed the investagation as soon as they coax the confession out of this poor boy.
caution03, when you write, write his case is watched in Germany also, I normally don’t believe in anything I can’t touch or calculate, but now I pray often for this boy.
I go fully conform with alawyer. I hope this nightmare for the boy comes to an end soon. He shouldn´t be in a cell anywhere.
Look for all of you who keep thinking this kid did this (IS SO WRONG). Frist this was a visit from the real mother who has not seen him for a long time, secound this happened 6 weeks after father and step mother married (they have been a family for over 3-4 years ) That i know of , it odd too all of us who know them that it was the day the real mother was going back to missippi were she lives, . now think about this if you not had contact with your real mother for a very long time , ( she could put just about anything in your head) And for all of you out there where he talks about his mom ( it is the step mother he is talking about) NOT THE NEW FOUND MOTHER WHO IS GOING TO MACK LOTS OF MONEY OFF THIS COME ON WOULD YOU FLY TO NEW YORK AND TALK TO ALL THE NEWS PEOPLE IF YOU DID NOT BELIVE YOU SON DID THIS. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A LITTLE BIT AND YES SHE IS NOT ALL THERE IN THE HEAD. okay im hoping you guy have got the point im sick of the crap thats out there i love this boy and his step mother they were a great faimly( from his mouth she was sent from heaven to be his mother)so he could be just like the other kids in class. AND I DONT CARE IF YOU (COURT)GET PISSED AT ME FOR TELLING THE TRUTH . COURTS SUCK SO PISS OFF
Even more terrifying than the possibility of an 8 year boy being accused of murders he probably could not have committed is that there are actually adults wanting to murder him, not much more than a baby. Even worst, is the fact that these adults are the ones we count on to protect us.
A police chief demanding the death of a young child is just disgusting. It makes me question him as a person and even more, him as a law enforcement officer. The district attorney is just as bad, both of them should be made to step down. The police who questioned the boy should be arrested and prosecuted for gross violations of his rights.
What amazes me is that if he were an adult all charges would be dropped because his rights were violated in every way possible. Not having an adult there on the boys side was illegal in every way possible.
The boy had to have been terrified. It seems like there is a big possibility not having anyone to protect him was just a way of life for him. The violence toward him by his step mother proved his dad was not there for him and his mother living in another state proves she was not there for him.
The thought that he may really have come home to find his father and friend dead and then, instead of being comforted and protected he was arrested, locked away and put through hours of interriogation and then hauled off to court, at times in shackles is just heart wrenching. What type of monster could bring himself to shackle a child. I guess the same type of monsters who could do all the injustices that have been done to him since the murders and the same type of monsters that would demand he be murdered.
I have cried for this little boy since the murders hapened. The thought that any one could think an 8 year old could be capable of reloading 8 times is just redicilous.
Why is the step mother not in jail and why would a fit father allow his child to be spanked 5 times over school work, much less anything else. No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. I do not understand how anyone can say there definantly was not abuse in the home. No one was there to see what was going on.
There is a LOT of BS on this page. Freaks and outright liars PRETENDING to have information or stating clear fallacies. “Commonsense” is a liar. A .22 caliber rifle is not going to knock ANYONE…not even an 8yr old “on his butt”. Another clown, “truthful”, says authoritatively “I KNOW there was no abuse…”. You don’t know jack, Jack. There have been SERIAL KILLERS who were governing members of churches, or policemen, or worked charitable organizations. There are LIARS all over the place. I don’t understand what they get by PURPOSELY misleading people, but I won’t have it.
The police don’t “want” to find an 8yr old guilty of murder. They have NO reason to need him to be guilty. If the kid killed his father, there was abuse. I have worked with kids as young as 5 who were abused and the rage they have is unmistakable and shocking. They are cute, normal kids 99% of the time, then they snap with an EVIL rage. Something bad was going on, and that kid put an end to it.
All you frauds need to STFU with your nonsense. If the kid did it, there is still PLENTY of time to change his course if he gets rigorous help.
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