REXANO, www.REXANO.org Editorial By Zuzana Kukol
PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, is a household name, known more for showing human skin than actually saving any animals. 
In their 2000 controversial “Milk Sucksâ€, “Got Beer?” advertising campaign, PETA parodied the well known original “Got Milk?” slogan by replacing the word “milk” with “beer.” The campaign was supposed to bring attention on the suffering of cows and calves in the dairy industry.
Since then, PETA mostly concentrated on naked protests, except for their infamous 2007 trial regarding the PETA employees caught dumping garbage bags full of euthanized animals they were supposed to help find new homes for.
One of PETA’s most visible (and hypocritical) spokesperson is a Hollywood star Pamela Anderson, mostly known for having regular ‘tune up’ cosmetic surgery procedures, many of which were tested on animals. 
The latest Pamela stunt was selling her “cow leather infested†2000 Dodge Viper for $65,000, portion of which will be donated to PETA.
According to various news sources “Michael McGraw, spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, said the group will use the cash to raise awareness about the cruel methods used to skin animals such as snakes and crocodiles, particularly in India.â€Â 
       Leather interior of 2000 Dodge Viper
I wonder how PETA reconciles the profiting from dead cows skins they were supposedly saving in their 2000 “Got Beer?†campaign by taking cash from selling a Dodge Viper with leather interior.
 And how can they use a hypocrite such as Pamela Anderson as their spokesperson and maintain a straight face?
But mostly, what can vegetarian group PETA really do for the snakes in India?Â
 
      Pet tigress wearing non-leather tiger collar looking at her Dodge Viper
Copyright © REXANO 2008
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Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackThe Los Angeles County tax lien currently against Tommy Lee and Pam Anderson Lee
http://webofdeception.com/tommyandpamandersonleecountytaxlien.html
She is now speaking out against KFC for cruelty to chickens and yet she has accepted the offer to appear on Big Brother Australia who are sponsored by KFC!
If PETA was serious about helping snakes, they would start with the rattlesnake roundups in the US. REXANO is correct in asking how can PETA help snakes in India when they do nothing here in the US about the inhumane treatment of our rattlesnake population at these ghastly rattlesnake roundups. Thank you REXANO for helping to get the truth out about PETA. They can do nothing for snakes except to use them to raise money from their hypocritical ad campaign to pay their high priced CEO. Before we start telling other countries how to treat their wildlife, we must start treating our own wildlife with respect.
Pamela Anderson is a HUGE hypocrite! She is getting a lot of money to appear on “Big Brother Australia” of which are is sponsored by Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC)! How can she in good conscious fight KFC all these years and then go on a show that is heavily sponsored by that very same product!?
Pam will be at Big Brother Australia to fight against KFC, she has taking this as an opportunity to speak for the chickens.
Samantha, but how do you explain hypocritical Pamela using leather products and cosmetic surgery treatments tested on animals? She might be speaking for animals to get extra exposure (pun intended), but she is not doing what she preaches.
Do you really think PETA doesn’t save animals?!
Check out http://www.peta.org/about/victories.asp
Even if you don’t count all of those victories, just think of all of the people that have gone vegetarian because of PETA. Every vegetarian saves about 100 animals a year!
Samantha~ I’m not sure if you were being sarcastic about Pam speaking for ‘the chickens’ but that is not why she is going on the Big Brother Australia show. They are having an episode about the paparazzi and she is suppose to teach the house guests how to handle being in the limelight. I highly doubt she will say one word about KFC’s practices. She will make a quick buck and promote her new tv show, probably without a care for any little KFC chickens. Pamela SHOULD win the Hypocrite of the Year Title!
~Sandi
Jason, growing vegetables kills more animals than being a meat eater. Just think of all the bugs, rodents, birds and other free ranging animals (chipmunks, jackrabbits, etc…) that have to be killed so your vegetables can grow and you can eat them. Unless you think one big animal’s life, such as cow, is more valuable than life of a jackrabbit? Does size matter?
Yes, Pamela Anderson should win Hypocrite of the Year. She may have been fine in Baywatch, but that doesn’t excuse her from being a selfish witch. She whines and complains when people don’t follow her animal rights views. She thinks people who don’t agree with that philosophy are ignorant rednecks. Her cosmetic surgery was tested on animals, as was the medication she takes for Hepatitis C. She’s been known to serve meat at banquets she throws. She’s against both of them. Here’s a real riot. She’s the star of a Mario Bros ripoff called Super Chick Sisters, which was released by PETA last year to manipulate kids into thinking KFC tortures chickens, of which it had already fired employees that did that. Two little chicks named Chickette and Nugget have to save her from Colonel Sanders. Why would I want to save her? I’d rather save Halle Berry, Anna Paquin, or Famke Janssen (all three actresses starred in the X-Men movies). Those three actresses are more beautiful and more talented than Pamela could ever hope to be. In fact, all three of them have gotten at least one nomination or won an award for movies they were in. I don’t know if Pamela has ever won any awards, but you’ll probably be laughing if I find out what they are. Maybe one of them is a Golden Raspberry award for one of her movies. Anyway, she is like a lot of PETA’s leaders. She doesn’t care about animals and uses them as a tool to get supporters, get publicity, or make a quick buck. If you want to help animals, volunteer at your local humane society. Contact local authorities if you suspect animal abuse or neglect.
Priceless posts people.
How is Pamela not doing what she preaches.
She had a car she never drove because it had leather so she sold it to make money to help promote non-animal product options in vehicles.
She is going on a show to make money (I guess only meat eaters are allowed to do that) and is basically creating all sorts of negative publicity against the company which is sponsoring the show. How is giving KFC a big F you, being a hypocrite?
The last bastion of those who feel uncomfortable with their own actions is to call someone a hypocrite. It allows them to get back some of the power in a situation where they are unsure about their own ethical choices.
Also Zuzana, priceless post on eating vegetables kills more animals. I love a good sarcastic wit.
UNDERAchiever, Pamela’s car had 14,000 miles on it, that is high for car like a Viper. Is that your definition of never driving her car??? Well, if somebody kicks you 14,000 times, does that mean they never kicked you? You need to eat more meat, you are seriously missing some meat based proteins in your brain.
What the heck is wrong with eating chicken? I think chicken tastes great!!! I love the Colonel!!!
Humans EAT MEAT!! We need it to be healthy. Have you ever really looked at a real vegetarian? They look sickly, and unhealthy.
Hey, Pam has a right to make a buck. Even if she needs to sell out her so called “ethics” and get it by working for the chicken masters of the world!!
After all, she needs a lot of money to keep herself looking like she does. I’m sure she is due for another liposuction here soon, or lip implants, or boobs, or bleach job….
Zuzana
You’re right. The article commented that she doesnt drive it anymore but I guess at one time she did drive it quite a bit and she commented she loved the car.
And as for your clever comment, you committed the classic fallacy known as Straw Man. You pick a small issue and deal with it rather than dealing with the whole hypocrite argument. Just because someone once drove a car with leather they are therefore morally and ethically corrupt was the argument here. Oh and also the eating veggies kills more animals… stifling laughter…
I would say the hypocrite is the “animal lover” who owns “exotic animals” and then turns around and eats animals. How does one claim to be an “animal lover” and eat them? Oh wait, it is better to try and tear down someone who is making an ethical choice rather than deal with one’s own sketchy ethical soup.
UNDERachiever, you keep not disappointing me, I expect little from you and I get it.
Yes, Viper is just one small issue in Pamela’s case. The big hypocritical issue is she keeps using surgery tested on animals all the time. She is a poster child for products and treatment tested on animals, that is not a thing of the past, that is current. She doesn’t
do as she preaches and if somebody like you accepts that as ethical, than you are not any better than her.
As for the animal lovers, we love animals alive as pets and we also eat some animals and our pets eat some animals (domestic cats are carnivores too). Mother Nature intended for some animals to be prey/food. We accept many animal uses, from pet to food. We believe in animal welfare, aka all animals being treated well, including food animals.
I deal with facts, she doesn’t do as she preaches, you try to defend the hypocrite and attack me with emotions, not fair, not nice.
Hey Zuz, I guess you are new to the vegetarian argument so no worries.
I think the Pamela issue is that she is stuck doing things that harm animals because she wants/needs surgery (her livelihood is based on big breasts) or wants/needs to drive (tough to be famous and take transit). The market has not provided her with veggie options in those cases.
By calling her a hypocrite you reveal yourself to be someone who is upset that Pamela has made some tough ethical choices that you yourself have not/can not make.
As for your omnivore argument just remember that in nature it is usually carnivores killing herbivores. We ourselves do not need to eat meat so why should we? Lots of stuff goes on in nature (incest, cannibalism, etc) that we have evolved/developed/socialized ourselves past so why not eating meat? Good for the environment, vegetarians have a lower mortality rate (we live longer), don’t hurt animals (much of the world eats dog, yum), and so on.
I dont expect the world to eat meat, I dont judge those who do, but in the rich western world where we can make the option I feel it is an ethical obligation.
UNDERAchiever, if you call Pamela’s choices ethical then u really lost it in my eyes forever and only tested on animals brain transplant might fix that. This brings me to the point in our discussion when I say:
your story is becoming tiresome and you could NOT touch my monkey even if I had one.
No, go away and graze some bug infested lawns, while I leash walk my pet tiger and lion, possibly relocate a rattlesnake, and then end my evening with huge juicy T-bone steak.
PS: Do not forget to watch old reruns of SNL-Sprockets,and Penn/Teller BS on PETA.
What is ethical, “achiever”, about forcing other people to succumb to your perceived ethics? Just because you wrap yourself tightly in your cloak of morals and ethics, does not mean that those ethics are necessarily right. Humans are omnivores; this means we need both vegetable matter and animal matter to exist. I am, above all, a naturalist. I believe in nature, as it was meant to be. I believe that in nature, without maintaining a healthy list of carnivores, the herbivores will overpopulate and become unhealthy, creating sickness and disease. I have seen where a large area had prohibitions on hunting, after man had destroyed all the other native carnivores in the area. The large herbivores became sickly, winter came and there was a mass die off because there wasn’t enough food. By removing all the other large predators, man has left himself as the only predator in most of the world. We can not undue the massive population surge of humans to give the original predators back their land, even if we hadn’t plowed it all for grains and vegetarian foods. I have always been an omnivore; will always be an omnivore, because that’s how evolution created me.
Now, check this out, because of a chemical imbalance, my doctor advised me that I should have animal protein first thing in the morning for breakfast, no soy milk, no carbs, no plant proteins, only lean animal protein, in order to function well. This is no joke. I can’t just have a large spoon of peanut butter and call it good, much as I love peanut butter. (I asked, because a scoop of PB on a spoon would be so much easier.)
I was raised to be in harmony with nature, to notice everything, to learn as much as I could about the wilderness around me. To this day, I still seek out wilderness, even in the heart of Phoenix, AZ. It’s not easy, but it’s my way of remaining centered, spiritually. To disconnect yourself from the natural world around you is to die. You can’t live in a vacuum. So, I stay connected. I take wildlife photos, I also eat meat. As a child, we raised chickens, both Bantams to keep the organic garden free of insects, and Rhode Island Reds & Longhorns for the dinner table. The 4 of us kids had to help process the chickens if we wanted to eat any whenever it was fixed for dinner. We usually had fresh fried chicken the night that we finished processing 150 chickens for the freezer. We also had deer, elk, moose, and once when I was a young child, a black bear. (I’ll take herbivore meat over carnivore meat.) There is no way that we could have grown up on strictly plant based foods.
Conversely, I read about a year or so ago, about a young couple who starved their baby to death because their vegan beliefs (a la PeTA) wouldn’t allow them to feed their baby anything but soy milk. They didn’t realize that their baby’s lack of gaining weight wasn’t a good sign but a very bad sign. The baby needed to grow, but couldn’t do it on soy milk, so it starved. I don’t remember the outcome, but I hope that they are serving time in jail while contemplating the drivel that human-hating Ingrid Newkirk brainwashed them into believing. Yes, human-hating. She puts all animals ABOVE humans, not on the same level, and PeTA is known to brainwash their employees, to follow them around, spy on them to make sure they are not stopping by Burger King for a quick Stacker. They are a cult, and Pam Anderson is one of many celebs they have brainwashed into their cult, worse than Scientology did to Tom Cruise and John Travolta. They start brainwashing kids early, with their handouts that call their mothers murderers because there’s roast beast on the dinner table tonight.
As for hypocrites, PeTA is the worst. 90% of the animals that come into their “shelter” are euthanized within the hour; some don’t even make it back to the shelter alive, and are discarded along the way. (You really think that the two that were dumping euthanized dogs & cats in a business dumpster between the local humane shelter and their PeTA office were not acting on orders from their superiors? The only thing that their superiors at PeTA didn’t order them to do was get caught.) Ever notice that PeTA’s logo doesn’t have a capitol letter ‘e’ – it’s because Ethical is not their primary concern, they are nowhere near “ethical” in any of their business dealings. They want to make it impossible for diabetics to get insulin. Insulin is created using Pigs and sheep. Yet, the second in command at PeTA is insulin-dependant diabetic. Type 1 diabetes can’t be treated with anything other than insulin. You can’t pop a Metformin pill and keep the blood sugar levels right. You can’t use Byetta for Type 1 (Which was derived from Gila Monster venom, by the way) We can not extricate ourselves from our natural surroundings, and as the top level omnivore, who has virtually eliminated all major carnivores from the planet, we need to step up. People like Zuzana have stepped up, they are helping prevent the extinction of these upper level carnivores since the natural home range of those carnivores is now farm land so humans can try to survive on plant life.
Now, I will step off my soapbox so I can cook up some pork loin, broccoli and potatoes.
Well said, Kat!
A study of the human digestive system and human history shows that while we are omnivores, our diets tended to be heavy in animal protein. I have found that the only way I can consistently stay healthy is to eat just like a lion– no carbs (stomach contents, ugh!!), only meat.
PETA has a history of finding class 1 losers in the acting/performing world and using them to promote their twisted causes. These people are so isolated from the real world by their fame that they will believe practically anything they are told by their handlers, and then cling to it like gospel. (Animal rights, IMHO, IS a religion!) PETA works long and hard to recruit these people, because they are respected for certain anatomical measurements (brain size not among them), and not for their knowledge and wisdom. They know people practically worship these stars because of these ‘measurements’, and therefore, they are willing to listen to whatever these loser-stars have been ‘conditioned’ to tell them. It is interesting to note that many of the very best actors (and acting is not a trivial skill) do not subscribe to the PETA/Animal Rights camp– they know better.
So, it does not at all surprise me that Pamela Anderson can say one thing and do quite another. At least in part, she is negating part of the message she is espousing and in fact is her own worst enemy.
Hey we can agree to disagree and all that but don’t play the nature card — especially from Phoenix. Your city is world famous for being unnatural. Millions of people living in the desert… have you found a new aquifier yet?
Yes humans are omnivores but we do not have to be that is all I am saying. I repeat we do not NEED to have plant and animal protein. I think that is pretty obvious since there are literally hundreds of millions of vegetarians kicking around and they have been for thousands of years (Buddhists, many Hindus, and your modern day Western veggies)
There is very little that is natural about how we live. Humans by our very intelligence have been changing our environment to suit ourselves. That is the whole point of our “evolution.” Maybe you missed it but that IS the story of humans — that we create systems, technologies and myths to harness the earth. There are 6.7 billion of us because we have transcended much of our “natural” selves. So if you want to drag your knuckles into the next century and continue to eat meat then go ahead. But we have some serious environmental problems brought about by short-sighted thinking and adapting to a plant-based diet (like many of our close primate relatives) is a good step towards dealing with it.
Obviously there are going to be situations where one uses animals. Non-human primates are crucial for some scientific work, animal protein is important for many societies who do not have the access to food that we in the West , and animals are put to work by us (poor farmer tilling his field, collie herding sheep, etc).
And while obviously Peta has some nuts they are simply an organization. Who the heck believes strongly in an organization. I’m with you there. Political parties, religion, Peta, corporations — all the same — an organization designed to do something. There will be people in each of the above that are idiots. They will all do stupid things. But in general they seek to accomplish something. It is up to each of us to understand the good from the bad and be critically aware.
As for that last comment by Kat — an animal based diet takes up a lot and I mean a lot more land then a vegetarian one does. So if you cared about protecting land for large carnivores like lions and tigers, a very real act that you could do personally is go vegetarian. You don’t have to, but do not suggest that your actions are mutually exclusive from the loss of habitat to large animals around the world.
Achiever, if you want to continue this banana versus polish sausage discussion, you need to reveal your true identity, or else you look like a coward with no balls to me.
This isnt a comparative argument so I dont get the admittedly clever banana/sausage reference.
We don’t need to continue this discussion.
Quite frankly the discussion has left the original Pamela is a hypocrite discussion.
As stated yes she is. Everyone is. I think you are for calling yourself an animal lover and then eating them. I am for sometimes eating stuff with chicken eggs in them, and still wearing a leather belt (though I did buy it before I went veg).
So call me a coward all you want. You have simply revealed that you are in over your head on this one. You have not been able to speak to my points because you dont really have a comeback. Most people I know admit that the veggie diet is the way to go they just dont have the willpower or dedication to it.
Your arguments in favour of an omnivore diet are feeble and unless someone has a specific dietary health issue, veggie is always the way to go.
Also this is the internet. I’ve been posting my email address but I guess it stays private. Who cares anyways? I could just make up a name if you dont like my handle.
You’re weird.
Achiever aka GMAIL account, aka, ‘I can be anybody I want to’ on a free web based Internet account.
Meat eaters love different animals in different uses, from pet to food; what part of I love my tiger, but I also love my steak, don’t you understand? Still waiting for your not web based email acount and real name.
I do understand.
Culturally you have been socialized to like some animals for pets and others for meat. You do not think about the intelligence of a pig or mother-child relationship between a cow and calf, but you love your giant cats and think dogs are not a legitimate protein source.
What’s not to get? That’s not an argument, it’s an observation of your reality. In the meantime, if you want to tackle any of the arguments in favour of vegetarian lifestyle feel free (for instance, loss of habitat suffered by panthers in Florida — veggies use anywhere from 5-8 times less land than meat eaters so are you not contributing more than you need to be to the deaths of panthers?)
Will McDonnell is my name and that is my email. I’m obviously not giving you my work email so that’s all I’ve got.
Yes, that is right, personally I refuse to eat dogs and use it as a source of protein, but I will not tell other cultures to live their life according to ‘me’ just because I personally find the idea gross.
If you want to be vegetarian and be bloated fine, your choice, but do not look down on others who choose different cuisine.
I raised baby cow when her mom died, I do understand cycle of life as I have meat eating pets. If humans were not meant to eat meat, we would have been created not able to process it; since we are able to process both, meat and plant matter, we are omnivores and I will not fight that, besides, it tastes good.
So you stick with your vegetable and I will stick with whatever I feel like eating.
Will, you are the only one really having a vegetarian argument , I do not care what is better or worse or healthier, all I want is to be left alone and free to choose to eat whatever I want to whenever I want to.
As for FL panthers, they are not pure, some from TX have been introduced years ago. Besides, there is a debate whether FL panthers really are a separate subspecies or whether the kinked tail that makes them different from other cougars is really just a result of inbreeding.
Trying to make me feel guilty for something I am not even doing will not work on me.
I am obviously an open book, I have been hands on animal owner for over 20 years. What are your qualifications on the subject
Hello?
I have clearly stated we are omnivores! For someone who claims they are “open” I feel like you are oblivious to what I am writing.
So you won’t tell any other culture how to live? They are all okay because it’s their culture? Female circumcision? Rewarding suicide bombers?
ummm. okay.
You said humans were “created” to eat meat?
How about we “evolved” as omnivores but have the brains and ability to be herbivores?
Fine be left alone. Do what you want. It is that mentality which is killing your precious big cats all over this planet. Humans first right?
And what is with the panther thing? That obviously got to you because your immediate reaction was to lessen the impact of your actions by suggesting FL panthers are not really “panthers.” You do feel guilty and you should. Why are your lions dying in Africa? Cause they are losing habitat to humans. They then attack cattle cause they have no food and the herdsmen kill the lions to protect their herd.
You claim you are not doing anything??!? How do you figure? Google “cognitive dissonance” for me.
Will, do you have multiple personalities? I never said you claimed humans were not omnivores. Your argument is everybody should turn vegetarian, to which my answer was why do that if we are omnivores, we were meant to eat meat.
And I never said everything other cultures did was OK, all I said nobody made me God to tell the rest of the world how to live like you do.
What makes your views and ethics better than mine or the rest of the world’s?
Yes, human encroachment is a big part of many species losing their habitat. I am doing my part, I am childless by choice, I am dedicating most of my time and my own money to give captive space to many animals that are going extinct in the wild. I am a realist, foreign cultures will not listen to our Western culture just like we do not listen and care to change to theirs, so I do the next best thing, saving the animals on US soil on my own property at my own cost, what is wrong with that?
By saying we are meant to eat meat is simply a defense mechanism.
Do you absolutely need to eat meat? No. Do you choose to eat meat? Yes. Does eating meat cause more harm to animals and the earth than a vegetarian diet? Yes.
So if you are eating meat you are choosing to commit more harm than you need to. Therefore it is a moral issue, not a biological one.
I am not saying my ethics are better than anyone elses. I am merely stating that my way of life causes less harm to the earth, its inhabitants and especially its living creatures than yours does.
Nothing is wrong with what you do Zuzana. I am just waiting for you to type into your keyboard the words: “I choose to eat meat. I do not have to eat meat. It would be better if I didnt because I would be helping the earth and the animals I love. I do not kill and clean my own meat so I am disconnected from my own diet. Maybe if I had to slaughter the animals I eat and prepare their flesh I might feel differently. I don’t know. But at least I am being honest with myself that the choice I make at each meal does have consequences for the world around me. I will continue to eat meat but maybe I’ll try and buy free range chickens and grass-fed organic cattle so I don’t have so much bovine growth hormone and other steroids flowing through my veins. Thanks for the discussion Achiever. At least I will be more aware of what I put in my body and think about not just my diet but all my actions and how they affect the world. Cheers.”
We do not inherit the world from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.
I guess we have different morals then, but there is no proof (other than your biased green opinion) than your morals are better than mine.
Achiever said:
So if you are eating meat you are choosing to commit more harm than you need to. Therefore it is a moral issue, not a biological one.
But there is lots of proof that an omnivore diet causes more harm to the earth and animals than a veggie diet. Lots and lots and lots of proof.
Groups as diverse as the United Nations, the World Health Organization and many national government bodies have stated that a vegetarian diet is good for the environment. A UN report in 2006 stated that the meat industry causes more green house gas pollution than all cars, trucks, planes, trains and ships combined!!!
On top of that it takes up more land than a plant based diet, and you have to freaking kill stuff all the time.
So if that is the case than you ARE choosing to cause more harm than a veggie. Therefore it is a moral choice not a biological choice. Unless you think causing harm to others has nothing to do with morals…
OK, United Nations is just a bunch of politicians, not nutritionists, why would you believe anything those puppets say??? Seems like you Will are a very nice caring guy, but you fell for the spoon fed propaganda of stupid politicians. You do as they tell you to save environment because you truly care and believe them, while they only say it because it is the next fashionable politically correct thing to do/say, even if false, while they drive limousines, fly private jets and eat meat and wear leather. Seems to me you do not have much hand son experience with animals and have to rely on the stuff others tell you, and so far you fell prey to the Unethical people/groups who only care about their own ego.
See if I actually thought you were clever I would guess you were being sarcastic here. I mean, how could one believe that in order to get two pounds of beef from a cow that this would somehow take less energy than getting two pounds of wheat. Just imagine how much potential food is lost feeding a cow over its lifetime before you kill it. And yes I know there is a different amount of energy in each but the calorie difference is so astronomical I am surprised common sense hasnt convinced you alone. Your response to this most basic, obvious fact is textbook cognitive dissonance. I guess you didnt bother googling that. It reminds me of people who say “God buried dinosaur bones to test our faith.” This isnt ignorance I am talking about. I do not expect you to know as much about this subject as me. But after facing argument after argument, fact after fact, you never deal with any of it. this is revealing.
I must tell you that you are a poor person to discuss things with.
You constantly create straw man arguments, you use ad hominem arguments (feel free to google these terms) and generally never deal with the issue. Unfortunately this means you are losing the argument because you are neither dealing with the issues that I raise, nor are you providing any proof of your own. Considering this is a website that you have set up to get people to side with you I am embarrassed for you. Zuzana, you have shown yourself to be incapable of admitting the validity of my points, actually challenging them or simply arguing in good faith. This is a very bad character trait because when trying to convince people to see your side you must be able to deal directly with the other side’s beliefs and ideas. Posing for pictures as you feed them milk from a bottle can only go so far. At some point you have to deal with issues. This is a fairly simple argument. Eat meat? Dont eat meat? You could have googled yourself some arguments to challenge my points. You could have asked some friends. You could have admitted that my reasoning is sound but you find that ethical choice to be too tough for your lifestyle (which is pretty much what every rational person and friend I have, including my family says). But instead you call scientists with the UN puppets, question the genetic make up of Florida panthers and say I wanna be left alone and do what I want. Is this the kind of person that should be on the frontlines of a political movement? ummm.
Good luck Zuzana.
Farm animals are extremely inefficient converters of plants to edible flesh. To produce 31.2 million t of carcass meat in 1993, US farm animals were fed 192.7 million t of feed concentrates, mostly corn. Additional feed took the form of roughage and pasture (FAO 1997; USDA 1997). Broiler chickens are the most efficient, requiring only 3.4 kg of feed (expressed in equivalent feeding value of corn) to produce 1 kg of ready-to-cook chicken. Pigs are the least efficient. For pig meat, the feed–produce ratio is 8.4 : 1; for eggs, by weight, 3.8 : 1; and for cheese, 7.9 : 1 (USDA 1997).
In animals much of the food is converted into manure, energy for movement, and the growth of body parts not eaten by people. Very little can appear as direct edible weight gain. For example, cattle excrete 40 kg of manure for every kilogram of edible beef (Environment Canada 1995).
Will, you are simply not getting it, no straw man here, please repeat this 100 times until you get it: no matter what you tell me I will keep eating meat, and you can eat whatever you want to, I am not trying to convert you to eat steak and in return please stop your vegan propaganda, that will never work on me, I LOVE STEAK! Pork is on the grill now.
Thanks
Achiever/Will wrote:
I must tell you that you are a poor person to discuss things with.
You constantly create straw man arguments, you use ad hominem arguments (feel free to google these terms) and generally never deal with the issue. Unfortunately this means you are losing the argument because you are neither dealing with the issues that I raise, nor are you providing any proof of your own. Considering this is a website that you have set up to get people to side
Obviously you are going to keep eating meat.
I’m just pointing out that your arguments are pathetic and you have completely failed to defend meat eating other than to say you love meat.
Well enjoy it.
And though you claim to love animals I guess I won’t call you a hypocrite. Cause you know .. oh wait .. that’s how this whole thing started. You calling someone a hypocrite. Cause they did something that was maybe not strictly connected to their beliefs. Imagine someone saying they love animals and then doing something to them that harms them?
Zuzana,
People like you are why your precious big cats are going extinct. You are selfish in your actions. Maybe that is hardwired into humans, I dont know. But if some rich, white lady in America cant make some simple lifestyle changes I have no idea how you expect some poor person in Africa or Asia to give a crap about your large cats.
In your world your cats are someone’s dinner.
Bon Appetit!
Just a quick run through of this thread leaves me sickened to the heart. Humans are part of the natural world, omnivorous (by nature)need to truly see themselves as part of the world rather than to distance ourselves. Claiming moral/ethical superiority is a good psychological game used by most animal rights activists and vegans to impose their choice on others. Children have died due to parents imposing unnatural diets on their offspring.
I haven’t seen one quoted stat with resources attached concerning the ‘choice’ to eat meat versus the environmental impact of raising enough grain to feed the world- considering herbicides, pesticides and non- natural fertilizers to produce enough. Balance in all things is necessary as I see it, even the natural fertilizer we have to put up with.
Mr. Will- If you have stats and actual scientific research info to share I’d be very interested in seeing it- nothing animal rights backed or based though please.
Achiever/Will. You gross me out, go away, you are so emotionally sick/disturbed and not appetizing I need to have double dose of pork tonight.
http://www.tampabay.com/features/food/general/article661291.ece
This article has a great shot of an African lion chop served with asparagus.
I guess you dont have a problem with your fellow citizens eating up some lion since, you know, meat is good and you hate when people are told what to do.
Yeah I’m emotionally disturbed. You spend your days fighting for the right to love your little cats and then spend the evening eating other animals. Even though meat eating is contributing to the extinction of those very cats.
Bon Appetit!
You just won the TOP prize for Number 1 Poster child for a Straw man argument here. I won our argument without even trying.
OMG, I love happy endings like these (and no Will, I am not talking about Asian massage parlors you frequent, get some Viagra, tested on animals but not made out of tiger penis)
Achiever wrote:
Even though meat eating is contributing to the extinction of those very cats.
After reading the last couple posts completely I would think the marketing/commerce aspect would raise it’s head. But that would take away from the ar agenda, warm fuzzies and maybe do something for the actual survival of a species. I don’t enjoy seeing any animal become endangered, extinct or otherwise while their is a very workable solution that includes the private ownership and use (including food) of animals.
Hypocrite- YEAH, she is and most likely doesn’t have the inclination to even research her ‘efforts’. She has a lull in her ‘career’- use and be used- it all pays. Sad world when we attempt to un-associate ourselves from everything in the cycle of life. Learning to live WITH in it’s many ways is way more preferable to learning to live without.
It is habitat destruction and human population growth that is causing the big cats to go extinct. Many of the people in Asia or Africa can not likely even afford to buy/eat meat and are vegans like you not by choice, by circumstances.
Lion chops are served in this one Fl restaurant once in a while, they r imported from south Africa from legally killed hunted lions and processed in USDA Colorado plant.
Hunting lions in Africa is expensive and hunting fees are reinvested in conservations to buy mo land for lions reserves. Few animals have to die to save the whole species.
Yeah canned hunting and sitting in a crate at a circus. The ends justify the means I guess?
Life for lifes sake? How about just taking the money one was going to send on 4 tickets to the circus and spend it towards saving some lions in Africa?
If Zuzana’s close-mindedness is an example of the kind of citizenry that gets to consider themselves an “animal lover” these days, then I don’t see how shoving a tiger in front of your average American in Vegas is going to do much.
Can’t write much more now. I’m off to the factory farm to take in this cycle of life I’ve heard so much about. I’ve heard the pigs, with their renowned intelligence (more clever than dogs anyways) have really begun to buy into this cycle thing. They have happily accepted their commodification and smile fondly as their piglets are taken from them, cause they know their children will also soon understand that it is preferable to live within the cycle of life is preferable to living without it.
Bon Appetit!
MARKETING & USE- I own animals that will be a long time coming to banning completely because they are USED in research. There is a market for tiger parts, pelts. Is it better to see the whole species gone or make it a sustainable supply for the demand? The human population does not go down in any reference I’ve seen so any habitat is likely to be overridden with humans. Would you suggest a massive cull or learn to live with?
The owners of animals, whether pets, breeding or food seem to me to be only adding to an otherwise dismal future. Even for the humans involved.
I’ve eaten cougar and a few other not considered ‘socially acceptable’ or sold in Kroger or Piggly Wiggly. I honestly think if so many US shelters have a euthanization issue then maybe they should be shipped to countries without those dietary customs instead of wasting a life for nothing. We seem to be quite capable of shipping them here from other countries to add to the numbers.
Achiever/Will, something tells me your real identity is u are a middle aged to older woman in FL (or her friend under her thumb being fed her psycho spoons).
This woman (you?)struggles with her weight and is jealous and psycho and a fraud and liar and NOT an animal trainer, looser bitch.
Oh Zuzana, are you still here?
Amy
Well human populations do go down regularly throughout history (Maya, Rome, Easter Island, etc). We usually overpopulate (disease kicks in a lot here), destroy our environment in a quest for scarce resources and then die off. This is the first time in our species’ history that we are carrying this out on a global scale.
We need a serious paradigm shift here.
If you want to farm tigers so the Chinese can eat their balls then go for it.
But at some point, people like yourself and Zuz are going to have to make serious lifestyle choices. Look at America. Dependence on oil, obesity, massive massive debt, death of manufacturing, cancer, and so on and so on. A civilization in its death throws.
I remember reading about a project in Canada where they had an overpopulation of geese and wanted to feed them to the poor. Now obviously there is some ethical issues there about whether the geese are healthy enough for human consumption but I thought that was a pretty good idea myself. The animal rights types just wanted them relocated. I dont know. Do you feed the poor? Do you relocate? Do you let the geese die off due to overpopulation?
I think the paradigm shift comes when we start questioning what our role is. Should humans even be involved in trying to “manage” nature?
I think shipping dogs overseas is legitimate. Quite frankly as a vegetarian I see pretty much no difference between eating dog, pig or goat, so why not right?
And Zuzana,
great comment by the way. way to represent the site. bravo!
Let’s see. I’m a young male (hence the name William <– for future reference this is a boy’s name Zuz) who does not even live in the US. I am athletic and do not struggle with my weight (vegetarians are much more likely to be thin since their diets are low in fat and usually live a healthier lifestyle over all. for instance we smoke less, drink less and exercise more than the average person). I am not jealous of a sad ignorant close-minded person who couldnt have a cogent argument if the life of her lion depended on it.
As far as a I know I am not a psycho, though my psycho brain maybe just wants me to think that. Not a fraud or a liar. Feel free to actually look any of the things I have written up and you will see them to be factually based and not just bland, blind rants.
I am not an animal trainer — you got one right!
I am guessing you tried to finish by calling me a “loser” bitch but were too loose with the ol’ typing finger. And since I am a guy the bitch doesnt work since it is an insult that has a lot of gender implications.
But thanks for coming out Zuz. I’m actually interested in what Amy is saying. You have been nothing more than entertainment to me for like five days. If you want to actually pull together a couple of rational sentences which brings something to this then fire away.
Your factory farm sounds interesting but first I would really appreciate the canned hunting info.
Anytime canned hunting is brought up I question sources and WHERE it is, WHO it is and WHY no one can supply these details. If I could get one factual answer to the above I would certainly use it to find out the rest of the story.
As for factory farms- seen a couple, raised most just at home. The emotions you impose on animals are not comparable to human emotions even though the media and others would portray human emotions as an animals’. Milk cows have to give birth to supply milk, they also have to be “happy” to produce over the course of things. All Happy Cows don’t come from California as in the commercial. Hey, they don’t wear sunglasses either.
~Poor white woman wondering wtf is going on with those wanting to impose their dietary requirements on others? Their pet ownersip requirements on others?
What I really want to see though is what I asked for before- stats on pesticides, herbicides and the affect on the envvironment. You know, those cute little tree frogs and salamanders and such- that are fed on by the garter snakes, birds and raccoons. The INSECTS! How many food sources for animals are lost by chemical spraying??? Put it out there, put it out complete.
Just a personal observation/opinion but I think Zuzana gets tired of defending herself, her animals and her right to even have them. I know I do. Working at raising most food animals (and plants)at home also. Is that acceptable or ethically/morally correct?
I don’t really care about the latest ‘movement’of those that use moral (supposedly) superiority as a foundation of their beliefs. They are free to live their way but I will fight to live my way, and for others rights to do the same.
I’m not a hypocrite, I love MY animals but also understand the use of others’. I wear leather, eat meat (of many kinds)- does not mean you don’t love animals- just means you have a larger window and outlook regardless who’s ideology you step on.
Achiever,
Meat eating is contributing to the extinction of cats? No, the use of tiger body parts in Chinese medicine is? African lion chops are bad? Well, just as bad as lamb chops. So farming meat as the same way we do vegetables is bad?
If someone wants a horse a pet, will you argue with that? Will you argue that if it dies you should feed the remains to those hungry, or just leave the carcass for the vultures? Is it okay to eat the vulture that ate the dead horse, cow, lion, or the leftovers that are in your trash? You are vegan, of course not!
What contributes to big cat extinction (tigers) is habitat loss. Now what will you do to stop their extinction? Exchange your property for land in India or Africa for them to live? I didn’t think so, you hypocrite.
Achiever,
Your personal attacks on Z are tiresome. What is your point? I eat meat and vegetables, you only eat veggies, what does that have to do with selling a leather clad car in the name of ethical treatment of animals? If I sell my snake skin boots, after I’ve worn them and no longer want them, in the name of saving snakes in India, yes cucumber breath; I is a moron.
You eat veggies; animals are killed so you can have your veggies, so you prove your point of being a hypocrite. You don’t think so, then maybe you should look at the pesticides used (oops, they were tested on animals also) on the crops. How about the mice, birds, rabbits and other rodents killed for the sake of your veggies. If you don’t agree, grow your own and see how easy it is.
Your argument about an exotic animal lover turning around and eating animals doesn’t make sense. Are you saying that we/she should wait for our carnivore pet to kill its prey for both of us to eat? Sounds good…achiever start running, it will be a lean meal, but hey you set the rules.
Maybe you should think of it this way, my pet is a possible man eater, but doesn’t eat me for dinner, what does that say about building a bond beyond species.
Achiever, maybe you should give up talking about something you don’t know anything about….how much did you bid for the viper anyway, it was driven 14k? Oh, I’m sorry, you just whine form the sidelines
Your factory farm sounds interesting but first I would really appreciate the canned hunting info.
They would love to farm tigers, but the dang things won’t procreate fast enough.
Anytime canned hunting is brought up I question sources and WHERE it is, WHO it is and WHY no one can supply these details. If I could get one factual answer to the above I would certainly use it to find out the rest of the story.
What do you mean here? Google big game hunt or lion hunting safari or whatever and see all the firms that organize these hunts. You think you pay that big money for the “chance” to shoot stuff? You pick it and its put on the range for you.
As for factory farms- seen a couple, raised most just at home. The emotions you impose on animals are not comparable to human emotions even though the media and others would portray human emotions as an animals’. Milk cows have to give birth to supply milk, they also have to be “happy” to produce over the course of things. All Happy Cows don’t come from California as in the commercial. Hey, they don’t wear sunglasses either.
I am not trying to anthropomorphize animals, but do not dare say you know the feelings of animals. You don’t. Things like pain and fear have nothing to do with the intelligence of an animal (yes more annoying scientific fact that gets in the way)
~Poor white woman wondering wtf is going on with those wanting to impose their dietary requirements on others? Their pet ownersip requirements on others?
What I really want to see though is what I asked for before- stats on pesticides, herbicides and the affect on the envvironment. You know, those cute little tree frogs and salamanders and such- that are fed on by the garter snakes, birds and raccoons. The INSECTS! How many food sources for animals are lost by chemical spraying??? Put it out there, put it out complete
Well yeah. Obviously. Who the heck wants lots of pesticides and insecticides used?
But all of that stuff is used to grow the food that the cows are fed. They are fed huge quantities of good food (and opportunity cost of that land being used for something else) in order to make a little bit of meat protein.
So, as I have pointed out ad nauseum becoming a veggie reduces the amount of suffering. Veggies = less pesticide, less insecticide, less death.
And on top of all that, feel free to buy organic. I regularly do (no pesticides or insecticides!)
Just a personal observation/opinion but I think Zuzana gets tired of defending herself, her animals and her right to even have them. I know I do. Working at raising most food animals (and plants)at home also. Is that acceptable or ethically/morally correct?
I don’t really care about the latest ‘movement’of those that use moral (supposedly) superiority as a foundation of their beliefs. They are free to live their way but I will fight to live my way, and for others rights to do the same.
I am not trying to take away your “right” to eat meat. Constitutional documents and current laws are made to try and stop people from doing things that cause harm. If you wanna hug lions then go ahead. But if they escape and kill people then you might find laws being passed that inhibit your “right.”
I’m not a hypocrite, I love MY animals but also understand the use of others’. I wear leather, eat meat (of many kinds)- does not mean you don’t love animals- just means you have a larger window and outlook regardless who’s ideology you step on.
As I have said before, the American way of life is not sustainable. I just dont think technology can save it. You speak about window and outlook? Put your “way of life” in perspective. You use way more energy and resources than any other people on earth. If everyone on earth lived as an average American we would need six more earths. So either you make everyone else continue to live in poverty or you reduce your consumption. And if you have not noticed, the people of China and India and Brazil and Venezuela and Russia, etc etc etc have decided that they are not cool with that idea and they are taking some of the limited resources of the earth.
Amy, your way of life is like what 50-70 years old? Its a post-WWII way of life. In the history of humans it is an unsustainable blink of an eye. Put your life in historical and global perspective and you will see that your “ideology” or “outlook” or your plan to live “my way” is already coming to an end. Good luck thrashing around, clinging to an outmoded way of thinking and acting.
Shoemaker,
What exactly was that?
Achiever,
Meat eating is contributing to the extinction of cats? YES. No, the use of tiger body parts in Chinese medicine is? (WHY THE QUESTION MARK? AND HOW DOES TIGER BODY PARTS KILL LIONS AND LEOPARDS?) African lion chops are bad? Well, just as bad as lamb chops. YES. So farming meat as the same way we do vegetables is bad? YES. LAST TIME I CHECKED CARROTS DIDNT HAVE CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEMS.
If someone wants a horse a pet, will you argue with that? I DON’T AGREE WITH IT BUT I WON’T ARGUE. Will you argue that if it dies you should feed the remains to those hungry, or just leave the carcass for the vultures? EITHER IS FINE. Is it okay to eat the vulture that ate the dead horse, cow, lion, or the leftovers that are in your trash? NO I WOULD NOT EAT THE VULTURE. You are vegan, of course not!
What contributes to big cat extinction (tigers) is habitat loss. Now what will you do to stop their extinction? CONTRIBUTE MONEY TO CAUSES THAT HELP PROTECT LAND. Exchange your property for land in India or Africa for them to live? I DON’T OWN ANY PROPERTY. I RENT IN A BIG CITY. I didn’t think so, you hypocrite. EXACTLY, WE’RE ALL HYPOCRITES IN SOME WAY WHICH IS WHY I STARTED WRITING HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE CAUSE ZUZANA JUMPED ON PAMELA FOR AT LEAST TRYING TO DO SOMETHING. THANKS FOR HELPING TO PROVE MY POINT.
Achiever,
Your personal attacks on Z are tiresome. What is your point? SHE HAS CALLED NAMES. I HAVE MERELY POINTED OUT SHE CAN’T ARGUE. HOW AM I MAKING PERSONAL ATTACKS WHEN SHE HAS DONE PRACTICALLY NOTHING BUT? I eat meat and vegetables, you only eat veggies, what does that have to do with selling a leather clad car in the name of ethical treatment of animals? If I sell my snake skin boots, after I’ve worn them and no longer want them, in the name of saving snakes in India, yes cucumber breath; I is a moron. I IS? I AM? I GUESS THAT IS YOUR OPINION. I LIKE THAT SHE IS DOING SOMETHING.
You eat veggies; animals are killed so you can have your veggies, so you prove your point of being a hypocrite. YES. IT WOULD BE VERY HARD TO LIVE WITHOUT ACCIDENTLY STEPPING ON AN ANT OR HITTING A BUG WITH YOUR WINDSHIELD. VERY ASTUTE OF YOU. You don’t think so, then maybe you should look at the pesticides used (oops, they were tested on animals also) on the crops. How about the mice, birds, rabbits and other rodents killed for the sake of your veggies. If you don’t agree, grow your own and see how easy it is. I SPOKE ABOUT THIS POINT ABOVE. VEGGIES ULTIMATELY REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF SUFFERING BY REDUCING THE AMOUNTS OF PESTICIDES, INSECTICIDES AND LAND USED FOR FOOD.
Your argument about an exotic animal lover turning around and eating animals doesn’t make sense. Are you saying that we/she should wait for our carnivore pet to kill its prey for both of us to eat? NO. LARGE ANIMALS WOULD PROBABLY PREFER THE WILD, YOU KEEP THEM IN CAGES AND HANDLE THEM AS CUBS SO THEY CAN NOT BE REINTEGRATED. LIFETIME IN A PRISON? NO THANKS. Sounds good…achiever start running, it will be a lean meal, but hey you set the rules. LOL.
Maybe you should think of it this way, my pet is a possible man eater, but doesn’t eat me for dinner, what does that say about building a bond beyond species. UM, YOU FEED IT SOMETHING ELSE. HOW ABOUT YOU DONT FEED IT FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS AND THEN GO IN AND TRY AND HUG IT OUT.
Achiever, maybe you should give up talking about something you don’t know anything about….how much did you bid for the viper anyway, it was driven 14k? Oh, I’m sorry, you just whine form the sidelines
WHY WOULD I BID ON A CAR WITH LEATHER SEATS?!?
Achiever, aka Will McDonnell, you are advocating serious animal abuse here just to prove something that doesn’t need any proof. Withdrawing food from any warm blooded animal, especially big cat, for weeks is a serious offense, go away, we do not advocate animal abuse, GO AWAY to your vegetables.
Yeah, it would be difficult to lovingly hug a dead cat, go away far, other galaxy if possible.
Achiever wrote:
UM, YOU FEED IT SOMETHING ELSE. HOW ABOUT YOU DONT FEED IT FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS AND THEN GO IN AND TRY AND HUG IT OUT.
I love HOT food and I grow my own Habanero peppers next to tiger cages. Tigers spray/mark it all the time, best fertilizer, best tasting peppers, same for tomatoes and grapes, gives animals nice shade too in summer.
In any case jalapenos are still vegetables, seems like all the latest salmonella major outbreaks are vegetable NOT meat or pet turtle related, so I say YES to meat eating and pet turtles, and yes to homegrown tiger fertilized hot peppers.
Z
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080721/ap_on_he_me/salmonella_tomatoes
FDA finds salmonella strain in jalapeno pepper
By LAURAN NEERGAARD, AP Medical Writer 29 minutes ago
Government inspectors finally have a big clue in the nationwide salmonella outbreak: They found the same bacteria on a single Mexican-grown jalapeno pepper handled by a small Texas produce shipper.
But Monday’s discovery doesn’t solve the mystery: Authorities don’t know where the pepper became tainted — on the farm, or in the plant in McAllen, Texas, or at some stop in between.
Nor are they saying the tainted pepper exonerates tomatoes sold earlier in the spring that consumers until last week had been told were the prime suspect.
Still, “this genetic match is a very important break in the case,” said Dr. David Acheson, the Food and Drug Administration’s food safety chief.
But for now, the government is advising consumers to avoid eating any fresh jalapenos, or products made with them, such as fresh salsa. Tomatoes now on the market are considered safe to eat, health officials have said since last week.
The Texas plant, Agricola Zaragosa, has agreed to recall its fresh jalapenos, although the FDA wouldn’t say how widely its produce was distributed. It is not considered a major processor, and it’s unclear how far into the United States peppers traveling through this small stop near the Mexican border would have traveled, something the FDA still is working to determine.
It’s also not clear if the produce distributor ever handled tomatoes. No other produce currently in the plant has tested positive for salmonella, Acheson said.
“I recognize there is a need to narrow this as soon as possible,” Acheson added — as parts of the country are entering prime hot pepper season.
A person who answered the phone at Agricola Zaragosa said no one was available to comment immediately.
With 1,251 confirmed cases in 43 states — and a few among Canadian travelers to the U.S. — the outbreak isn’t over yet, said Dr. Robert Tauxe of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But the CDC said last week that it appeared to be slowing, and indeed has confirmed just 14 additional cases since then. The latest that someone fell ill was July 4.
Zuzana
Really? Really?
Someone explain this lady for me. Is she brand new to the English language? How, at this point in the conversation can you think I was actually advocating that?
I was speaking to the comment about creating a bond and how that bond is basically as strong as “owner brings me food so I dont need to eat owner.”
I mean, you really can not read for comprehension can you? I’ve read statistics about how 20% of the U.S. population is functionally illiterate…
You just showed complete ignorance and lack of personal experience as to what kind of relationship exotic animals form with their owners. You have NO clue how affectionate, loving and special they are and it has nothing to do with food. You never experienced the close bond I have with the exotic cats, so you can not understand.
It is obvious you don’t like animals, you just hate humans, that is the only emotion you can show. How sad and pathetic your existence must be, spitting somebody else’s spoon fed propaganda and not having any sweet emotional experiences of your own.
Achiever spitted out:
I was speaking to the comment about creating a bond and how that bond is basically as strong as “owner brings me food so I dont need to eat owner.”
Yeah its spoon fed propaganda.
I have two university degrees and have read extensively on the subject of vegetarianism and ecology. You are an out of work Vegas showgirl Eastern European import who can barely comprehend what she is reading. And then when her arguments are ripped to pieces she resorts to personal attacks like a petty child.
Cognitive dissonance lady. You friggin can’t handle that I challenged your narrow little world view so you assume its all “propaganda.” You don’t have the ability to research any responses to my points let alone understand half of it. So keep on spouting those personal attacks. You have revealed yourself to be about as useless a spokesperson for your cause as can be found on some random blog site.
achiever
1. I do not care about your degrees and what they spoon fed you in school, I care about personal human experiences, you have none, I have many
2. I never worked as a showgirl or any dancer for that matter
3. Seems like you only read green crap that agreed with your predetermined ideas and conclusions
4. Now leave on your one way vacaation to a Spoon feeders Galaxy FAR AWAY
Seriously Will, show me one credible example where vegetarianism saved endangered species, show me one scientific credible study where long term veganism is not detrimental your health.
I am no longer having fun playing with you, your drivel is very annoying , so either put out and give some sound scientific evidence that will back up your claims or stop your propaganda.
In any case, I am a determined meat eater, so I am not sure what your goal here is, since I eat meat because I like it , since I do not worry about the health stuff you scream about, why are you still here ??? Unlike you, I am not trying to change you, all I want from you is to go away. Can you do that?
I was just hoping you would admit that vegetarianism is a healthy, environmentally friendly way of living and that eating meat is an ethical choice. I also was concerned that you shallowly chose to call out Pam Anderson who is trying to do something for a cause she cares about (much like you).
But you couldnt even admit to, challenge or engage any of my arguments.
I’ll go to the trouble of grabbing some links for you to show you that what I say has been backed up many times in peer reviewed academic journals — if you can tell me what cognitive dissonance is. Prove to me you can read English and I’ll bother responding.
Otherwise I guess my work here is done.
You’ve shown yourself to be the immature, ignorant and functionally illiterate blogger that many of your supporters probably didnt realize you were. I guess ignorance is bliss is not an overused cliche.
Will, I have nothing to prove to you. And if you stop responding that means you went away like I politely asked you to, so my wish came true. That would be our non Asian happy ending. Maybe if you did fewer lonely happy endings watching Pamela’s videos, you could be able to open your eyes and see the truth.
Thanks
Achiever wrote:
I’ll go to the trouble of grabbing some links for you to show you that what I say has been backed up many times in peer reviewed academic journals — if you can tell me what cognitive dissonance is. Prove to me you can read English and I’ll bother responding.
Cognitive dissonance.
Goodbye.
No need for being dirty with me. Are you feeling guilty (torn) for not being able to stay away from me, aka somebody who is supposed to be bad for you?
The irony of you talking about truth when I suggest you are suffering from cognitive dissonance is a perfect ending to a shitty conversation. You were completely useless to your side of the argument.
How dare you say no need to be dirty when your standard response for the last week was calling me a bitch, etc.
You are a poor representative of your cause. An unprofessional, illiterate, close-minded, immature, sad sad woman.
The reason I continue to respond is because I hope to be leading you deeper down the mine. Those associated with your REXANO group will actually see what kind of person you are.
But you are too thick to realize what I am doing. There is nothing clever about your responses. There is nothing clever about who you are.
You do not even have the intellectual capacity to explain the term cognitive dissonance and you think you have the right or responsibility to run a group?
Yeah so I basically had to s-p-e-l-l it out for you.
Well done.
Served.
Hey Achiever…. I’ve got a great idea for you…. why don’t you spam Zuz and find another article she has written…. then…. change your user name and SAY THE VERY SAME CRAP you are saying here!!
OH!… wait!!!…… you already did that!!!….. hmmmmmmmmmmmm Once a loser… always a loser!
When you graduate from the 6th grade… come back and post an educated comment that any body OTHER than yourself wants to read.
Oh D.
I didnt even know “Zuz” had written anything else until you pointed it out. I’ve just been looking at “Similar Posts” as if that was the actual post list. Thanks for the heads-up! Now I can go terrorize her somewhere else. That’s called sarcasm tiger. Or I’ll stfu since that has what I have done since she did. See, that deadening silence is her being served. K?
Can’t handle that someone else might also have a brain and share my views? Sigh.
What the heck is wrong with eating chicken? I think chicken tastes great!!! I love the Colonel!!! (GREAT REASONS D.CUTRELL — SEE, REASON IS HOW WE RUN THINGS AROUND HERE IF WE’RE LUCKY)
Humans EAT MEAT!! We need it to be healthy. (NOPE) Have you ever really looked at a real vegetarian? (UH, YEAH, THEY LIVE LONGER THAN MEAT EATERS…) They look sickly, and unhealthy. (LIKE TOBY “SPIDERMAN” MAGUIRE, SHANNON ELIZABETH, CARRIE UNDERWOOD, RICKY WILLIAMS, DESMOND HOWARD, ETC)
Hey, Pam has a right to make a buck. Even if she needs to sell out her so called “ethics” and get it by working for the chicken masters of the world!! (Scroll down to Human Life here: http://timothycomeau.com/blog/date/2001/)
After all, she needs a lot of money to keep herself looking like she does. I’m sure she is due for another liposuction here soon, or lip implants, or boobs, or bleach job…. AD HOMINEM ARGUMENT – BLAH BLAH)
g
As an Ecologist I find this whole argument on meat eating vs. vegetarianism and it’s effect on the enviroment interesting.
Achiever, I’m interested in exactly what facts support your claim that eating meat is more detrimental to the environment than being a vegetarian? What parameters are you basing your conclusions on?
True raising livestock consumes a lot of fossil fuels and it also takes up a lot of space to grow the food to feed to the livestock. However, the cultivation of plant foods has also been detrimental to the environment. Water usage, pesticides, herbicides, the clearing of natural land for farm land, the upset of food webs in neighboring ecosystems are just a few of the environmental problems faced with growing plant foods for human consumption.
And the vast majority of studies done on meat eaters vs. vegetarians lump ALL meat eaters together. There is a huge difference in someone who scarfs down bacon, sausage, steak, eggs, etc everyday as opposed to those who eat the proper 1-2 servings of lean meats per day that is recommended. I wonder what the results of a study of total holistic health of vegetarians vs. meat eaters who eat healthy and follow a healthy lifestyle would be???
The bottom line is eating meat does not have to be bad for the environment and everyone has a moral obligation to make sure the food they are consuming, both animal and vegetable, is grown in a responsible humane manner. Every single animal species on earth must consume living tissue in order to survive. Death is just as much part of life as is birth and all the fun happy stuff. It’s the way in which the food is raised that causes the moral dilemma!
BTW, if anyone hasn’t guessed, I fully support the right of responsible law abiding citizens to own whatever animals they want so long as they can properly care for their physical, psychological, and emotional needs!
“Achiever, I’m interested in exactly what facts support your claim that eating meat is more detrimental to the environment than being a vegetarian? What parameters are you basing your conclusions on?
True raising livestock consumes a lot of fossil fuels and it also takes up a lot of space to grow the food to feed to the livestock. However, the cultivation of plant foods has also been detrimental to the environment. Water usage, pesticides, herbicides, the clearing of natural land for farm land, the upset of food webs in neighboring ecosystems are just a few of the environmental problems faced with growing plant foods for human consumption.”
Though I’ve already touched on this above — the simple answer is that the animals consume vast amounts of plant matter that needs to be grown at some point. So animal husbandry exponentially increases the amount of land needed to feed humans. Though it varies animal to animal, in every single case it takes a much larger amount of water and plant energy to create just a small amount of “meat energy” than it would if we just cut out the meat eating and ate the plants.
“And the vast majority of studies done on meat eaters vs. vegetarians lump ALL meat eaters together. There is a huge difference in someone who scarfs down bacon, sausage, steak, eggs, etc everyday as opposed to those who eat the proper 1-2 servings of lean meats per day that is recommended. I wonder what the results of a study of total holistic health of vegetarians vs. meat eaters who eat healthy and follow a healthy lifestyle would be???”
Oh for sure. Statistically vegetarians are wealthier, more educated and live a much healthier “lifestyle” (smoke less, exercise more) than the general population. So it is tough to figure out the causation there.
“The bottom line is eating meat does not have to be bad for the environment and everyone has a moral obligation to make sure the food they are consuming, both animal and vegetable, is grown in a responsible humane manner.”
What does “bad for the environment” mean? It is a fact that meat eating takes up more resources than a veggie diet. Therefore, in a finite world, with massive extinction happening right now and scarcity of resources, veggie living is less harmful to the earth. I would say ripping up a wildflower field to grow organic tomatos is “bad for the environment” but it is less “bad for the environment” than ripping up the wildflower field to grow grain to feed a handful of cows.
“Every single animal species on earth must consume living tissue in order to survive. Death is just as much part of life as is birth and all the fun happy stuff. It’s the way in which the food is raised that causes the moral dilemma!”
Really? Well the next time you crush a lamb’s skull before you skin it and eat its ribs let me know if you feel anything. Anything at all. That slight twinge? That’s the morals. Feel free to swallow them along with the lamb.
Man, that Zuzie Q is quite the tool. I mean…wow. Just flat out duh with a bullet. Achiever, seriously, hang in there, though it’s clear that you can easily handle yourself when surrounded by complete nitwits. Zuzu, that means ‘the wit of a nit’. Look it up.
Ms anderson dose stupid and rediculous ads for PETA just to prove what a hypotcrit she is why dont she GET A LIFE and quit trying to force us all into some putrid veganism i mean HITLER WAS A VEGETARIAN and CHARLES MANSON WAS A BIG TIME ECO-FREAK AND ANINMAL RIGHTS WACKO
Saw a picture of pammy anderson posing in a rediclous lettuce leaf bikini in a attempt to make us all go vegan YOUR STERIOTYPE DUMB BLONDE
Achiever,
I have been reading your posts and respect your beliefs as yours and you have a right to them.
But as 1lila1 said ( what statistical DATA are you using?). You touching( even in detail ) on the matter is not statistical data or a study done by a credible source.
IF you have any actual data (not from an advocacy group) from a reliable source or links of research to back your points I will be more than happy to read and consider them.
Instead of insulting someone who is asking for statistical information to back up your stance; why not just give them the information they seek and prove your point?
Achiever,
I can only believe that you stayed here this long in hopes that maybe your words weren’t falling on completely deaf ears.
You have been called rediculous names in some effort, I suppose, to make you look bad. That you responded so graciously without personal insult in return. I commend.
It is my veiw that we are all stewards of this planet.
I sincerely hope we can show our love of this planet by educating ourselves and at times swallowing a pill and admitting that we could make changes in our lives to help the planet a little more.
I’m no saint myself, but I do try in ways that I can and hope others will make an effort to do the same.
I would say that Wills comments do appear to come from a more educated stand point than the rest of you. Just an observation.
Wishing us all a healthier planet…
Just realized how old the last post was. lol!
Still….
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