TO:
Mr. Larry Cornett
Director - Earth Religion Rights Network
http://members.aol.com/lcorncalen/erro.htm#INTRO
Miss Wren Walker and Mr. Fritz Jung
Founders– The Witches’ Voice, Inc. - NeoPagan News Network
http://www.witchvox.com
Dear Sirs and Madam … or … whatever,
We have recently uncovered a development to which we are compelled to alert you with utmost urgency. It is our belief that armies of Catholic nuns have been dispatched by the Vatican to infiltrate, mimic, subvert, and corrupt the sacred beliefs, rituals, and practices of your family of Earth Religions. Their goal: to arrest Neo-paganism in its present ascent in contemporary society and banish it – yet again – to the ill-regarded fringes of mainstream culture. There can be no other explanation, except perhaps that these Sisters are in the process of committing the heresy of Gnosticism ; but … no one thinks that. We submit the following as evidence.
In researching Mikhail “Nature is my god” Gorbachev’s “Earth Charter” (Kudos on that by the by. Masterpiece of NeoPagan dogma this, eh?) we noted a considerable number of Catholic religious orders – particularly female orders - on the Earth Charter database of official endorsers. Do a search of the word “Sisters” in this database and you’ll be scanning listings ‘til next Samhain!
Initially this may seem to you a positive development, i.e. the more the merrier. However, even a cursory glance at Catholic teaching make it obvious that serious endorsement of this charter by vowed orders of The Church of Rome is non-sequitur, presuming these orders wish to actually remain vowed to said Church. For no Catholic Church we know, nor official ministry thereof, could genuinely endorse a declaration which aspires to become an “international legally binding instrument” while demanding population control, proclaiming earth – not God – “has provided the conditions essential to life’s evolution”, is paraded about in a 500 pound “Ark of Hope” along side “magical” Temenos books, and calls for the replacement of Christian Charity and the Works of Mercy with State enforced redistribution of wealth.
Something more must be afoot.
Indeed further investigation has revealed that, beyond this endorsement, a considerable number of these orders are engaging in rituals and practices that have nothing to do with Catholic teaching or tradition, and everything to do with your brand of communion with “the divine.” For instance:
• the adoration of “Mother Earth”
• Reiki
• Spiritual guidance (no mention of the Carpenter from Nazareth here. Just “Divine Energy.”)
• Lessons in “Earth Literacy” and “New Cosmology”
• Feminist spirituality (“God you are many, you are woman”)
• Support for gay marriage and abortion
Again, on its face, all this might seem rather encouraging to Earth Religionists; an awakening on the part of draconian papists, evidence of the inevitable and necessary transition from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius. It is, however, not this. For in their flirtations and dalliances with the occult not one of these orders seeks to renounce their association with the Holy See and its sole devotion to Jesus Christ. And as the Vatican reminded Catholics in its 2003 study Jesus Christ - The Bearer of the Water of Life: A Christian reflection on the “New Age”, it is impossible to serve two masters.
“Christ or Aquarius? People who wonder if it is possible to believe in both Christ and Aquarius can only benefit from knowing that this is very much an ‘either-or’ situation. ‘No servant can be the slave of two masters: he will either hate the first and love the second, or treat the first with respect and the second with scorn.’ (Lk 16.13). Christians have only to think of the difference between the wise men from the East and King Herod to recognise the powerful effects of choice for or against Christ. It must never be forgotten that many of the movements which have fed the New Age are explicitly anti-Christian. Their stance towards Christianity is not neutral, but neutralising: despite what is often said about openness to all religious standpoints, traditional Christianity is not sincerely regarded as an acceptable alternative. In fact, it is occasionally made abundantly clear that ‘there is no tolerable place for true Christianity’, and there are even arguments justifying anti-Christian behaviour. This opposition initially was confined to the rarefied realms of those who go beyond a superficial attachment to New Age, but has begun more recently to permeate all levels of the ‘alternative’ culture which has an extraordinarily powerful appeal, above all in sophisticated Western societies.”
In other words, it is no secret the official Catholic Church is no friend to the Earth Religions. In fact, “Pantheism, Naturalism, and Absolute Rationalism” were formally condemned as Errors by the Vatican in 1862. Likewise, it is no secret the feeling is mutual. Thus we can only conclude that what appears to be pell mell church-wide corruption born of a fundamental lack of understanding and respect for the foundational theology and doctrines of the Catholic faith in favor of utter and complete spiritualist quackery, is instead yet another Vatican-orchestrated conspiracy aimed at erasing Paganism once and for all from the field of human belief.
We therefore implore you and all leaders of the Earth Religions, in the name of all that is Sacred (which for you is pretty much everything) to identify and expose these spy nuns and their accomplices before there cynical mission proves successful.
Trust us; you’ll be doing us all a favor!
Cheers,
Charlie
www.churchillsparrot.com
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20 users commented in " Spy Nuns Infiltrating Earth Religions "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackUM, Speaking for Earth Religions, We don’t mind if “spy nuns” want to infiltrate our ranks. This isn’t some war of faiths. These “spy nuns” could simply ask to come over and have some tea. I for one would be happy to explain our faith. While she is over she might even help me take care of some yard work that needs to be done, afterwards I will make us a nice meal and we can set down to supper. In fact, if the Pope is so concerned about us and what we are “Up To” he is welcome to stop by as well. Alas, I will be sure to keep an eye out for nuns armed with night vision and assault gear. Hope these nuns aren’t authorized to kill!
My Dear Tommy,
A splendid suggestion. While you’re hosting these nuns at tea, would you mind asking them what exactly it is they think they’re doing? We are at a lost as to an explanation. Imagine, if you will, if your ilk were to suddenly begin performing the Stations of the Cross or praying The Angelus three times daily. You might find this perplexing. Are they converting? “No!” they insist. Then … what? It would seem that these Sisters (the vast majority of whom are products of that grand and glorious baby boom generation) are just plain bored with the Catholic approach to contemplative prayer and are seeking something more “Hollywood.” This is, in a word, pathetic. Sacrilege is another word that comes to mind. Anyway, let us know how it goes. So far as we know they’re not trained to kill. In fact they are evidently opposed to violence of all kinds particularly against trees, plants, rivers, and endangered species.
Cheers,
Charlie
Why should it bother any Pagan/Wiccan/or otherwise of any of them come on over and celebrate with us? It’s not as though they are going to convert us, and any information they gather for the Pope or whomever will only dispell the b.s. propaganda lies.
I think what’s going on here with this article is that christians are scared because their seats are becoming empty. Charlie, you said it in your own words in your response to Tommy:
“Imagine, if you will, if your ilk were to suddenly begin performing the Stations of the Cross or praying The Angelus three times daily. You might find this perplexing. Are they converting? ‘No!’ they insist. Then … what?”
Now, if a Pagan were to go to a catholic church and do these things, it wouldn’t bother you a bit! You’d snicker at having your claws into another victim and you’d gloat at the Pagan community that you took someone from their fellowship.
Yet, you want to make us believe these nuns are going to hurt US? More like you fear they will be awakened to the lies and free themselves of the chains of brainwashed ignorance.
Please, try to use your time more wisely than to convert people to your brand of dictatorship paranoia. Like, for instance, learning how condescending THIS statement is:
“We therefore implore you and all leaders of the Earth Religions, in the name of all that is Sacred (which for you is pretty much everything)…”
Sort of like if someone were to tell you a bleeding Jesus joke, eh?
Your post was already see-through, but you really lost all credibility when you mocked the very people you are trying to convince.
My Dear “Logical,”
Your name is aptly chosen as “Ironic” or “Humorous” would clearly be inappropriate.
We have no need nor interest in converting anyone. Whether one wants to worship Jesus Christ or tooth brushes is entirely their own choice. What we seek, however, is integrity amongst our own Catholic religious. As scorn from other Catholics, however tepid, has proven to no avail, we wrote our post in the hopes that pagan endorsement or derision of our Sisters’ ding-battery might wake them to how Non-Catholic they (the Sisters) are behaving.
They may walk all the labyrinths and work all the ennegrams they wish, but they ought not tell us they are doing so as representatives of Catholicism or Christianity at large. Ignorance of the fundamental distinctions between Christianity and paganism at that level of vowed religious is deeply disturbing. If these Sisters wish to become Wiccan or Druid or Shaman than they ought do so, but they may not claim they are representing the Faith of our Fathers and “improving” it in their doing so.
Cheers,
Charlie
Thanks for the heads up, Charlie. I’ll keep an eye out. Fortunately, we Pagans have developed a knack for distinguishing between those who are truly open-minded in exploring their spirituality and those who already know everything. The second type are the only Christians I have any trouble with.
My Dear Wanderer,
Well put. We are all for open-mindedness. There is a point, however, at which open-mindedness transitions into mindlessness. It is to this point which we caution Christian and pagan alike.
Cheers,
Charlie
Teehee, you are such a dumbass. I would welcome the nuns and laugh in your sorry face. Maybe if you treated them better they wouldn’t leave your bed and come to mine.
My Dear WTF,
Thank you. You are making our case, brilliantly!
Cheers,
Charlie
For even the mildly observant, this is simply history repeating itself. One would be hard-pressed to find an activity within Christianity that doesn’t have Pagan origins.
The reason they took over Paganism in the first place applies to today: appeal to the masses; then wipe them out.
Christianity has ALWAYS been devoid of spirituality because it was based on political takeover - not the human search for truth and meaning. When people begin looking elsewhere for spiritual substance, the potential loss of control and members forces them to incorporate previously unacceptable ideology and practices. With just a slight twist, Goddess worship is warped into Mary or St. Bridgette worship. Couldn’t be easier.
We, the manipulated, are discussing the most manipulative (emphasis on man) force we have ever encountered… but those little nuns are so cute.
My Dear Tall Oaks,
We appreciate your bringing additional historical context to this debate. By way of clarification, however, Christianity is based, not on political takeover, but on the teachings of Christ. You are correct however in that at various points throughout Her history,the Church has strayed from those teachings for reasons of political takeover, out and out corruption, or in attempts to appeal to the masses. We submit that portions of the Church are in one of those “appeal to the masses” sorties at present, not for puposes of actually taking over and wiping out paganism (despite our “warning” above) but because Earth Religion is currently all the rage! These wannabe Wiccans of the Church are demonstrating all the spiritual depth of 16 year olds seeking desperately to fit at any cost. From the Christian perspective, that cost is quite severe.
Cheers,
Charlie
http://www.churchillsparrot.com
Christian theology and dogma are the tenets of the group. “Christianity” is “whatever the group calling themselves Christian” are doing.
The behavior of the group (throughout history and now) has been LOOSELY based upon the teachings of Jesus, i.e., Jesus never taught the inferiority of women; Paul did, Moses, Abraham and other OT writers did. Jesus never told anyone to torture anyone, wage war for The Cause and kill on his behalf, obliterate cultures in his name - again, here we have Paul, John and Timothy to thank.
The book Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna has already addressed this issue from the Christian perspective. The authors recommend incorporating successful Pagan practices into church services to “try to effect the approach ministries are using to try to affect people’s lives.” They offer Pagan suggestions “to church leaders so that they can be more strategic and make better decisions and serve god in a better way.”
These quotes are from a five minute interview with Barna (posted on YouTube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvaJKKKL1S8)
If you’d like more information about the re-takeover of Paganism, ask the Christians.
Well I dear friend, I was just being silly and sort of mean just to see what kind of reaction I could get out of you.
You dear christians may feel that we will burn in hell for our beliefs but if we do then we’ll be burning right along side you. Read the bible and read it closely. Once was a christian myself so I know it well.
And just a bit more about my last comment, are they not leaving your bed and coming to mine and are you not treating them like possessions in every post you’ve put about them? I have certainly seen it, so maybe I did prove a tiny point and I’m sure it’s not the one you were referring to in your snide little remark.
Good Day and may the Goddess bless you even though your wretched soul does not deserve it.
My Dear Tall Oaks,
Thank you for the lead re: “Pagan Christianity”. We shall investigate. Fascinating area this, regardless of what side of the ennegram one stands.
My Dear WTF,
Thank you for your thorough summation and damnation of both Christianity and my wretched soul. You truly have incredible powers of divination.
No one treats the Sisters or anyone else as property. They are free to take and/or renounce their vows as they choose. We seek only intellectual honesty from who have assumed the role of “Vowed Religious.”
Also, not all believe that you will burn in hell for your beliefs. Some just find your beliefs silly. As you, no doubt, find those of Christianity. So be it. We shall all find out someday shant we?
Cheers,
Charlie
Wow.You don’t often find a CIVIL conversation between a christian & a pagan. I found the artcle interesting. I’m a pagan, but I agree with Charlie;when one takes an oath,in any religion,one should keep it, or openly break it.
P.S.
Dear WTF, you are not doing paganism any favors by posting such hateful & discriminatory remark.
A brief correction - Sophia is not the name of a Greek Goddess. It is the Greek word for Wisdom, as you would have recognized had you read the footnote on the subject in the link you had.
“Sophia is the Greek word for “wisdom” and is found throughout the Hebrew Scriptures. In Proverbs, Sirach, and the Wisdom of Solomon, “wisdom” is personified as a woman who has significant relationships to both humans and the Divine. In recent years, feminist theologians have begun to use the name “Sophia” in place of “Holy Spirit.” ”
You might also have reference the (originally) Christian church the Hagia Sophia (or Church of the Holy Wisdom of God) in Constantinople.
My Dear Tenshi,
Thank you. You get it.
MichaelMN,
Excellent point. However, given that our focus is Catholic and Christian vowed religious, we prefer they adhere to the Christian traditon of the Holy Spirit and not replace it with anyone or anything, even in the name of almighty feminism.
Cheers,
Charlie
Actually I’m not being hateful. . .I’m just being mean. I’m not really as I act and I’m not really who I seem to be. . .I just think that this topic is VERY funny. . .lol
I find this conversation very interesting. Theologically, Charlie is absolutely correct from my experience. I cannot stand it when people profess to be of a faith but feel free to take out parts of it that don’t suit them and feel free to practice the parts of other religions they like. I have seen Christians who conveniently ignore many of Christ’s lessons and clear rules of the faith and yet still profess to be Christians… apparently because, according to the theory, it doesn’t matter what they do as they will be forgiven.
Sadly, I have known people who profess to be pagans who do the same thing, but that’s a different subject.
I would not doubt that there are Nuns who practice pagan rites. It’s sad, though, as their own faith has plenty of ceremonies they can dedicate to the preservation of the Earth. I would find it absurd if a nun participated in a spiral dance or any other pagan rite, and I would not cloud the meaning of their ceremonies by doing more that witness them.
Thanks for the debate!
Miss P
I am a Pagan, but I don’t hold with those who express anti-Christian sentiment. It’s true that many of the practices of modern Christianity were originally Pagan. However, rather than make the ‘they stole it from us’ claim, I prefer to think of this as one example among many of how religions change and evolve. Every religion from Christianity to Paganism and everything in between changes with the times and as it is introduced and accepted into different cultures. Catholics in Africa practice differently from those in Rome, Buddhists in Tibet from those in Japan, Muslims in Iran from those in the US. Practices that begin as the custom of a particular culture can sometimes be found to have value among a wider group and be adopted to their uses. That brings us back around to the issue of nuns experimenting with less traditional ideas of spirituality. I have to say I disagree with the idea that one must choose one way or the other. I wouldn’t be the first to claim the Church is a bit out-dated and might benefit from being less rigid.
It occurs to me that among my examples I should also add that Catholics of today practice very differently from those in the Renaissance or those in the Middle Ages. Not all of those variations are handed down from the top, either.
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