Turkey is exporting its aggresive denial policy (a secound killing) and some countries are acting in the same way as German Empire actted during the Armenian genocide . When it come sto Armenian Genocide Turkey is demanding: “Dail D For Denail”

Turkish lobbyists ….
De Volkskrant
Dutch daily newspaper
19 October 2007
By our correspondent Philippe Remarque
…
.
Watch now the Turks. How it works exactly is hard to find out. ½It½s better
to ask the PR office which is hired by Turkey says the office of
representative. The PR-office replies: We don´´t communicate on this
matter.
Fortunately, America keeps close record of the currency flow. The documents
show that former representative Livingston, now an influential lobbyist, has
received 12 million dollars from Turkey in the last 8 years in order to
prevent successfully the adoption of the Genocide resolution. He is now
active again according to the registers. Take for instance representative
Bobby Jindal who received from Livingston 10 thousand dollars donation for
his campaign for governorship. Two months later, Jindal withdrew his support
for the Genocide resolution.
Turkey also brought into action former presidential candidate Dick Gephardt.
He is lobbying now against the Genocide resolution for an annual pay of 1.2
million dollars.

Regards
edic

Turkey’s archives are open and Turkish government and public offered a joint study where Turkis, Armenian and all other archives can be examined to identify all facts, including how many Armenians were killed, how many Turks were killed, what were the exact events.

Armenia refused any joint study. Armenians archives are still closed. Unlike the trials that took place after the holocoust, there has not been any trials. Why does Armenia does not want additional investigation? Are they afraid to find out what Armenians did leading up to this? Are they afraid to find out the population of Armenian deaths are much below what they are claiming..or are they afraid to find out how many Turks got killed during the same period. My grand parents town in Sarikamis - close to Kars got burned down by Armenian Gangs in 1912. Most of their friends and relatives died. My grand father got killed as well. My father moved to Istanbul with his mom and 4 brothers and sisters.

Frankly, I find it insulting to claim this as Genocide just because a wealthy American Armenian population is threatining their representatives with votes. Those representatives can not act as the judge ant the jury. After an investigation where all archives are examined, if Turks are found to have committed Genocide, I am fine with this. I am curious to find the word to describe the butchering of Turks by Armenian gangs prior to 1915. I guess there is no word since Turks do not have a wealthy majority that can pressure the US politicians same way the Armenians can.

I don’t care how many Armenians try to push with all their might that Turks are cold-blooded genocidal butchers.

NO. 1:

Henry Morgenthau’s memoirs (something so often used by those who back the genocide theory) itself claims that;

“The Armenians in Istanbul, Izmir and Aleppo were not harmed.”

For ANY NEUTRAL OBSERVER who wanted to see “what the fuss was all about”, this should raise a red flag:

These were the three biggest cities in the Empire, Istanbul being the capital. So the Ottomans were committing genocide, but somehow didn’t touch the Armenians (most probably the most prosperous among them) who lived right under their nose? WTF? That would be like the Nazis not touching any Jews who lived in Berlin, Warsaw and Frankfurt!!!

WHY?

REMEMBER: (A) massacre(s) becomes genocide when there is a clear indication to kill, and actual killing, of a group for reasons of their ETHNICITY.

As a Turk, I find it extremely weird that Ottomans wouldn’t touch any Armenians right under their nose if they were comitting genocide between 1915-17.

Everyone knows that many Armenians died. But it was war and many ethnic groups were killing each other in a moment of history where “might was right”.

It is tragic, but there has never been a SOUNDPROOF case for genocide.

AS A TURK, I GIVE YOU MY WORD THAT I WILL BELIEVE IT WAS GENOCIDE WHEN YOU CAN SHOW ME OTTOMAN GOVERNMENT ALSO DEPORTED AND KILLED ARMENIANS IN LARGE SCALE FROM ISTANBUL, IZMIR AND ALEPPO BETWEEN 1915-1917.

In fact, the Armenian population in the very capital, Istanbul, was unchanged between 1914 and 1918.

But until that day, NO WAY JOSE. I will always believe that it was a tragedy and will feel sorry for all the Armenians, Muslims, Turks, Kurds, Azeris, Greeks etc who died during the war - but no genocide.

Quite right Baris.

Pelosi lobbied for this resolution to pass because she’s got a lot of Armenian voters in her district. Same goes for Schiff. They thought that it would be easy for them to get it passed - after not being able to push through bills that would actually accomplish something - and thought that it would not have any impact in the real world.

Something else people seem to forget is that the resolution speaks about 1915-1923. This while the deportations ended in 1917. Why 1923? Why? That’s right, because the Turkish Republic was established in that year. Make it 1923 and suddenly the Turkish government is morally and… oops… financially responsible.

Listen - what happened to the Armenians is horrific. Many of them were killed; probably between 800,000 and 1,000,000 died during the years of the deportations of most Anatolian Armenians. However, the perpetrators were to a large degree Turkish Muslims acting on their own initiative, Kurdish groups and, lastly, some officers, etc. Meanwhile, the Ottoman government was, according to the authority on the Ottoman Empire and Turkish history Bernard Lewis, disgusted the by the reports.

If we want to label it genocide, we have to prove that the government ordered the killings. As far as we know, it didn’t. You could also say that condoning it, would be enough, but research shows that they didn’t ‘condone’ it either - they were simply unable to do anything about it but punished many of the individuals responsible for the massacres when they could.

There is, no matter what people say, disagreement about this among historians. There are several great historians who believe that what happened wasn’t genocide. A few: Andrew Mango, Bernard Lewis, Norman Stone, Stanford Shaw, David Fromkin, Justin McCarthy, Guenther Lewy, Kamuran Gürün, Michael Gunter, Gilles Veinstein,Roderic Davidson, J.C. Hurwitz, William Batkay, Edward J. Erickson and Steven Katz.

Yes, these are people who actually know what they’re talking about.

Stiletto asks : “Since when is it somewhat sinister for a congressman to represent his constituents?”

Here is the answer : It is sinister when that constituency is made up of a hatemongering, well-heeled Armenian lobby whose not-so-hidden agenda is to do irreparable damage to our 60 year-old friendship and alliance with our important NATO ally, Turkey. It is not only sinister but damn near tantamount to disloyalty and treason when a U.S. politician damages our vital, overall national interests just so he can get his grubby hands into the deep pockets of the hate-obssessed, bordering on the psychopathic, Armenian lobby. One would get you ten that if it were not for the rich, pushy and arrogant Armenian pressure group, neither Pelosi nor Schiff could tell Armenia from Albania.

Here is my question for Stiletto and the ethnic-vote chasing political prostitutes who voted for the “Armenian Bill” :

If instead of 70,000 Armenians, Rep. Schiff’s district had a 70,000 Japanese-American constituency, would this “humanitarian-motivated” political whore push for a resolution condemning as war crime or genocide, the U.S. atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I don’t agree with it, but many people in the world - not least the Japanese - consider Hiroshima and Nagasaki a war crime, tantamount to genocide.

How about it, Stiletto? Could you do me a favor and relay the above-question to Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Joe Knollenberg and Frank Pallone? These honorable representatives are the leading Armenian-ethnic-vote panderers in the House.

I am sorry, Sherlock, but you have surmised wrong. I am in fact from this country, and I am very well aware of the subversion and perversion of our democratic process by a well-heeled, narrow-interest Armenian lobby that gives every indication that its reason d’etre is to disseminate misinformation and anti-Turkish hate propaganda. For proof, all you have to do is to take a gander at the sites of ANCA (Armenian National Committee of America) and AAA (Armenian Assembly of America). You can also look at the Armenian news site ANN/Groong. Talk about deviant hate behavior. Nuts!

If you want proof of not just hate-mongering but actual hateful deeds, how about the murders of Turkish diplomats in Los Angeles by Armenian terrorists? Does the name, Mourad Topalian, ring a bell? He was the national chairman of ANCA and was even a guest at the White House once. He was later suspected of bombing the Turkish Mission to the United Nations in New York. He pleaded guilty to possession of two machine guns and explosives and served time in an Ohio prison. A fine, upstanding Armenian lobbyist he was.

But never mind Armenian terrorist attacks on diplomats and officials. How about the cold-blooded murder of Orhan Gunduz of Boston by Armenian terrorists in 1982? He was an American of Turkish descent. His only crime was to serve the Boston community as the Honorary Consol of Turkey. How about attacks by an Armenian goon squad upon students at UCLA who had only gathered for a cultural event entitled, “Turkish Night”? How about the bombing of the house of Prof. Stanford Shaw of UCLA? His only crime was to refute the bogus and obscene allegations of hatemongering Armenian fanatics. After the bombing, Prof. Shaw and his family were forced into hiding. I could go on listing further acts of threats, violence and intimidation tactics employed by Armenian nationalist fanatics, but it would take several days and I would end up with carpal tunnel syndrome.

I suspect that Mr. Rich was winking and had his tongue in his cheek when he wrote about “high moral standard.” Otherwise, I would have to conclude that it takes an immense amount of Armenian chutzpah for him to preach about morality even as he sits on the stolen lands of the Native Americans, reaping the benefits of the genocide of that nation. The same goes for the incredible gall and odious arrogance emanating from the Armenian settlers in places like Fresno, Glendale and Watertown. I realize that these settlers have an uncontrollable obssession to vie for as the bestest and mostest champions of “eternal victimhood,” but for them to attain a modicum of credibility, they first need to pack up, get off and return those stolen lands back to the rightful owners, the Native Americans. As these settlers, including Mr. Rich and the politicians who shill for the shrill Armenian lobby leave the stolen lands of the Amerindians, it might possibly help sell their holier-than-thou sermons if they were to also dip in their pockets and pony up their fair share of the forty acres and a mule that were the compensation promised for the crime of anslavement of Africans in America.

The omnipresent ultra-nationalist Armenian lobbyists and their shills in Congress could also help their “Hai Tad” (Armenian Cause) if they were to press for condemnation of Armenia’s savage sneak attack and brutal occupation of 20% of Azerbaijan. Today, one million Azeris are displaced from their homes as a result of Armenia’s butchery and brutality. Barring such a push for condemnation, the Armenian lobby and its bought-politicians reek to high heaven of malodrous hypocricy, expediency and amorality. What was it that Mr. Rich say, “high moral standards?” Nuts!

Final point: It is not smart to evade and duck a question, as Hillary Clinton learned in a recent debate. Mr. Rich, I did not ask if Japanese-Americans can or cannot lobby. The claim that was made by Stiletto was that it is the duty and obligation of a Congressman to do the bidding of his constituents. If that were so, my question stands: If the said politician’s constituency consisted of Japanese-Americans instead of Armenian-Americans, and if those Japanese-American constituents pressured their Congressman to push for condemnation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as genocide, would that Congressman do the bidding of his constituency and denounce the U.S. use of the atomic bomb on Japan? I think the likely answer is : When hell freezes over.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, let me pose a second question in similar vein :If in the near future, a certain constituency in a certain Congressional district, let’s say around the Dearborn, Michigan area, pressed its Congressman to declare Osama bin Ladin as a freedom fighter, would that Congressman do the bidding of that constituency that elected him? My guess is : Like hell he would. But I guess the ethnic Armenian lobby is an exceptional breed. Their bidding must be obeyed. Far be it from me to suggest that this might be due to its incessant, shrill voice and pushiness. And I would not dare presume to suggest that the said politicians are slightly interested in the votes and the deep pockets of the super-duper activist Armenians. Then again, what do I know? Perhaps I am “ignorant” as Mr. Rich asserted. You see, I also believe that the Armenian lobby did not make a multi-million-dollar contribution to the Jewish Holocaust Museum in DC in order to display that fabricated Hitler quote about the Armenians in that museum. My bad. I must have heard wrong. I had heard that the directors of the Holocaust Museum had previously, adamantly refused to post that fake Hitler quote about the Armenians - that is, until the Armenian lobby reached into its deep pockets and shelled out millions USD.

My friend, Mr. Richy, the point is not that the Armenian-Americans or Japanese-Americans do not have the right to lobby Congress. The point is that our Congress people DO NOT have the right to put their narrow, selfish interests before the overall national interests of our nation. What the pushy Armenian lobby is pressing for is insidious. What these people perceive to be be in their interest, is not in the interest of the rest of us 299 million Americans. I hate neither Turk nor Armenian. But it takes a lot of nerve for these Armenian settlers to come to this country and expect us to join in their hatred of another people. If these Armenians want to carry on with old grudges and fight blood feuds, let them go back and do their OWN fighting - instead of trying to get the rest of us Americans to do their fighting for them - just as their progenitors tried to do 100 years ago. It did not work then. It won’t work today. Who was it that said: Definition of insanity is repeating the same tactics and expecting a different result?

Well, my friend, Richy,again you dodge. We prefer to get our song and dance from Astaire and Kelly. And it would be a far better thing you do to leave the tap dancing around an issue to the professional tap dancers like Hillary Rodham and Mitt Romney.

You duck numerous questions posed, and cherry-pick. And even then, you manage to contradict yourself. Now, my disingenous-morality preaching friend, please pay close attention. This is no “hypothetical.” This is you in your own words :

“Our Government should respect the voice of the people…”

“The Congressman you list are doing what is expected of them under our Constitution, to represent the people of there Districts.”

“But the Congressman does not have to listen to the people of his district if he does not wish too…”

Jesus H. Christmas, fella! Talk about turning logic on its head! Where did you buy this kind of upside down logic? At your local Armenian lahmajun and falafel store? If this ain’t a sophomoric attempt at having your cake and eating it too, then my name is Gagik Gugukian. Which is it, fella, a Congressperson DOES or does NOT have to listen to his constituents?

I am courteous enough to reply to every point and claim you make. In your next reply, I hope you will extend the same courtesy and not practice evasion and dissembly.

Your claim : Turkish gov’t spends millions lobbying the U.S.

My reply : The amount spent by the Turkish gov’t pales in comparison to the gazillions spent from the deep pockets of the well-heeled Armenians in order to feed their idee fixe, i.e. the dissemination of their bogus “Armenian genocide” allegations. And we’re not even mentioning the monetary value of the billions of man-hours spent by Armenians in writng to editors and talking to anything that moves, about the “Armenian Cause.”

Since you are a “high morals” type of fella, you should not dodge but answer straightforward morality questions :

When do you plan to pack up, leave and return the stolen land you sit on, back to its rightful owners, the Native Americans?

When do you plan to make good on the promise of 40 acres and a mule as compensation for the enslavement of Africans in this country?

Until you make atonement for the above-mentioned crimes against humanity, your preaching of morality is beyond odious. We might as well listen to preachings about the value of human life from Linda Kasabian, the Charles Manson disciple and participant in the Tate-Labianca slaughters. Or how about a lecture on the virtue of virginity from Kim Kardashian and Cher Sarkissian?

My holier-than-thou friend, please refrain from this puerile effort at twisting my words or putting words in my mouth. I never said and never would say, the citizenry do not have the right to petition our gov’t. By making such absurd intimations, you betray your young age and lack of life experience. In any event, as you grow older and wiser, you will be shocked to learn that the world actually does not revolve around Armenian ultra-nationalists and their psychotic obssession with badmouthing anything Turkish and spewing hatred.

And do us a favor, Richy, please don’t presume to lecture us on U.S. history, constitution and government. Unlike some people, I did not do my studies at the private Armenian schools of Glendale, taught by the Armenian Apostalic Church. Nor did I memorize the U.S. Constitution at the Armenian kebob restaurant. My studies were conducted at P.S.#2, Central High and William Paterson University in New Jersey, the land of the Delaware and Nanticoke/Lenape Indian tribes. I can tell you one thing though : Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin and Co. could not have imagined remotely, an arrogant, pushy, odious hatemongering lobby such as the Armenian lobby.

We await your answer giving us your departure date and your handing over the stolen land back to the Native Americans.